MLU FORUM - LPG fuel around the world...

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I checked the prices in town today. Gas is $1.21 and propane is $1.01. With a 15% loss in efficiency there's no savings to be had but that can change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob McNeill (Post 104366)

Regarding the situation in NSW and Historic rego, the RTA our govening state body says " the vehicle is to be as close to ORIGINAL as possible except for safety issues " since lpg requires an engineers ticket the vehicle has been MODIFIED so it is not eligable for Historic or Concessional rego.

Bob,

I don't think that is an insurmountable obstacle.

What about all the hotrods and left to right hand drive conversions on concession rego. Describe your Blitz as a hotrod if you have to, you will still get concessional rego.

I think that a simple "There is no longer any leaded petrol so the vehicle has been forced to use a fuel which will now damage the engine. I am faced with a choice of making internal modifications to enable the vehicle to be safely used. I have a choice of rebuilding the whole engine and modifying valves etc or fitting the much more ecologically sound gas conversion."

There are lots of other ways to get a plate on a vintage gas powered car as well.

I am a great believer in just doing it - let them discover a regulatory problem with absolutely no extra information from you. If you volunteer to test the gallows trap door or if you blindly follow all the rules you are only encouraging the bastards!

Lang

I run a car here in the UK which is on LPG gas.

The cost savings were what attracted me to this plus prior experience of it in Australia where as other have said it is a well established alternative fuel for vehicles.

Initially looked at doing the home brew bio diesel however when you did the sums it was too expensive compared with LPG. Even with the current waiving of fuel duty on home production / own use bio diesel.

Home brew bio diesel might have been OK before too many people started chasing the used chip oil. Once everyone wants something it is no longer a waste product you can just take away. It has now become a product to be sold to the highest bidder. Also with bio diesel you only have access to it at home. Once away from there you are back to petrol station prices.

I do about 250 miles a week and previously did this in an Mercedes A class manual 1.6 litre 4 cylinder petrol. Have swapped it for an automatic 4.6 litre v8 Range Rover on LPG. Fuel cost in real life driving over the same journey is about the same. Have driven on LPG then petrol however cannot tell the difference.

LPG tank replaced spare tyre so keep dual fuel capability if needed and no loss of interior carrying space.

Was concerned as most seem to be about my ability to locate a LPG filling station when away from home. Filling stations are not as common here as in Australia. Problem has been solved though as a list of all UK mainland filling stations can now be down loaded from the internet and put into your sat nav (Check before purchasing sat nav as not all brands are supported). This listing even includes price and opening times and is updated about every 2 weeks. Drove to the highlands of Scotland for a weeks holiday and even up there gas was viable as it was available in even the smallest village.

Downside is that there is no standard filling connection in Europe. Go to Southern Ireland and the connector is different. Believe there are 3 types in Europe just depends on the country you are in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang (Post 104399)

Don't give up Canada, I am sure there is a way to use LPG in a cold climate with a bit of inventive experimentation.

There certainly is: I wear a parka when I barbeque with it in January. If it's real cold I bring the bottle into the house for a spell to warm it first.

An update on LPG
From what I can gather there is a new compliance law coming into effect in Europe regarding low temp operations. Called "R115" can anyone shed some light on this?
HH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard (Post 104878)

From what I can gather there is a new compliance law coming into effect in Europe regarding low temp operations. Called "R115" can anyone shed some light on this?

Howard, I googled the following information:

Quote:

Regulation No.115 :

R115 is a European retrofit directive for LPG and CNG systems, as of October 2003. This directive stipulates the emission, documentation and quality standards to be met by the manufacturer of the LPG system. For each car make or car make series vehicles have to be tested in a certified laboratory. The following checks will be made during these tests:

Parent car check:

Emission measurements:
The vehicle is measured when using petrol (1x) and LPG (at least 2x). For the LPG test two reference fuels are used (LPG-A = 85% propane-15% butane and LPG-B= 30% propane-70% butane). The power per cylinder will be calculated for the parent vehicle. The R115 certification results in a range of vehicles within 30% below and 15% above this value. Depending on car make or car make series, at least 1 or 2 vehicles will have to be tested. The R115 certification is based on the Euro standard of the vehicle tested (current vehicles comply with Euro 4 standard).

Power measurement:
For each parent vehicle the power has to be measured on petrol and LPG/CNG. When running on LPG or CNG, the power should not increase more than 5%.

Fuel consumption:
For each parent vehicle the fuel consumption on LPG/CNG is calculated based on the CO2 emission measured.

OBD function check:
For each parent vehicle an OBD function check of the petrol and LPG/CNG system is made. The installed LPG or CNG system should not influence the operation of the OBD system.

Installation according to R67-01 or R110:
The R67-01 (LPG) and R110 (CNG) directives describe the use of certified components and system installation requirements. These directives have already been used in Europe for a few years. The parent vehicles will be tested based on those directives (components and installation).

Documentation:

In addition to the parent vehicle requirements, the following documentation must be provided with the LPG or CNG system according to the R115 directive:

Instruction manual (service booklet) in the appropriate language.
Installation instructions for the workshop (at least in English).
Identification sticker or label to be installed in engine compartment.

ISO / quality assurance:

The LPG or CNG system manufacturer will be tested according to the corresponding ISO standard and quality assurance program for the components (C.O.P.). This certification will be carried out by a certification board which acknowledges the R115 certification, e.g. RDW in the Netherlands or KBA in Germany.

Read the full agreement here: www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r115e.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletrac (Post 104419)

I checked the prices in town today. Gas is $1.21 and propane is $1.01. With a 15% loss in efficiency there's no savings to be had but that can change.

Is that per Litre?
HH