picture
 

picture uploaded

Morning Robert.

Yes, in your Post 21, Pic 1, that is the Onan exhaust shroud. The white paper Instruction Sheet for it's installation would have been to it's immediate left.

As far as i know, all 2K1 bodies were wired for the 110 line. It was present in nearly all of the bodies I examined at Princess Auto years ago, and in the bodies from which it was missing, you could see the trace of where it had been removed and the brass ID plate was still on the front wall for it.

Must try and find that photo today and see what model Onan it was.

Morning Rich.

Love your project. I know it has been a big one so it must be nice to be running down the far side of the hill with it finally!

If you have any holes on the left side of your 2K1 other than the two large round ones with the two keyholes above them to support the map table, then they must have been added for some sort of late life modification. The original penthouses for the 2K1 were only supported along the roof line either side by the row of hooks running the edge of the roof, above the rain gutters. I have only ever seen photos of the penthouses set up, so all one can see is canvas and a bit of rope, but there were likely two corner posts and some guy roping at the very least. The other unknown is if the penthouses were part of the 2K1 'standard kit', or requisitioned on an 'as needed basis'. Set up with one on either side of the vehicle, would be a great looking setup. Party room on the right, conference room on the left. ;)

Look forward to your photos of the 12-volt passthrough terminals. Robert's idea of moving the wireless set out to that side makes a lot of sense and that terminal would fit the bill nicely, Especially since the hookup would totally interfere with the Cypher Clerk's station so he would have to be working somewhere else. As I recall, one could not fold the Cypher Clerks desk out of the way if the inside terminals were in use as I think it covers those terminals on the inside when in it's stowed position. Not sure they would be able to place the 19-Set on the map table without risking the weight pulling the two support chains for the map table out of the aluminum side wall eventually. Maybe it was set up on something else when moved to the penthouse.

David

aerial tube
 

here, finally, the aerial tube.

Picture posted by 8th Hussar , he has a very fine picture album on this box.

While looking for the photos of my 2K1 I was sidetracked by an old folder of data I had accumulated on the 2K1 bodies I was able to study at Princess Auto. I had taken the opportunity of so many being available to sort though all of them to filter out what appeared to be common to all of them (translate original) and what was likely later life modifications.

I came up with these two floor and ceiling plans, I thought I would share.


David

Sorry guys. Just found some more boring stuff related to the electrical interference problems encountered from the engine ignition system in the Chev HUW initially, and how it was solved. I drag it in here as it precedes development of the 15-cwt 2K1 and the items developed for the C8A HUW were actually incorporated into the production of the 15-CWT, 2K1, WIRE 5 Vehicles. If you have the original Cab Assembly for a WIRE 5, you will see the factory installed mount for the ignition coil, spanning the opening just below and back of the hood hinge line. The coil was placed there, in it's own little shielded box, from it's normal position right side of the engine above the distributor because of the shielding boxes that were installed over the distributor and spark plugs.

I have the instructions for all this shielding work, complete with parts list and illustrations. It's 9 pages and if you are interested, let me know and I will scan it in and post for you. Done up properly, these 2K1's were pretty tight little suckers electronically!

David

Robert.

Before I forget. I think you had asked earlier if the 2K1's were ever heated. The short answer is , no. However. There is a 2K2 Wireless Body. Never ever seen one, but apparently it is virtually identical to the 2K1, with the exception of the addition of an electric heater. I have no idea where it was located, but it had two separate blowers, one for heat and the second for air circulation and was wired into the panel box with the addition of another fuse in the No. 6 Fuse Position.

David

2k2
 

David,

You are a champion of information.

Thank-you very much .

My box will have heat you can be sure of that.

The power generated by the period Onan or it's 110VAC modern equivalent will be put to good use, you can believe me.

You are the best source we have had yet on this most interesting discussion.

You have seen 50 of these boxes , more than most i suggest.

:note:

Done - please proceed, gentlemen :D

H.

Ah Hanno.

It's great to be able to sit back and watch a genius at work! :thup2:

Thank you so mush!


David

Cipher clerk window and starting coil isolation
 

David,

Here are the two features you were talking about:

1- Cipher clerk window to pass messages outside in the tent were the removeable table would be installed .

2- Starting coil isolation for the wireless truck.

It is so much better with pictures.

interior plan- Aerial chimneys and roof lights
 

My friends,

1- Here we see the aerial chimneys and ceilling lights.

2- Here is an interior plan drawn up by our friend Bruce Parker a long time ago .

You are another genius at work here, Robert.

The passthrough still present in the Cypher Clerk's window screen suggests it is probably still the original copper screening. There would have been a spring loaded flap covering it on the outside to keep the weather out. A number of years ago, there was an apartment block here in Winnipeg built in the 1920's and each apartment door was equipped with exactly the same mail box slot assembly. It was torn down about 20 years ago, but very carefully salvaged of all the beautiful woodwork in it. I could not find out where the doors went because it would have been nice to know a source of supply for those mail flaps.

Yes, that is the coil isolation point under the hood. The two holes on the right (vehicle right) held an extension of the coil box that mounted a large filter cap. The coil box would also have it's own cover assembly.

Nice work Bruce did with his sketch. It jogged my memory once again regarding the 110-Volt Onan set up and now it is really starting to puzzle me as to what is so special about that particular configuration for the 2K1.

As I mentioned earlier, the Onan also had a 12-volt feed that I had thought was tapped into the circuitry to cross charge the wireless batteries located on the floor of the box in the front right corner. Not quite so.

I found the Wiring Diagram from inside the lid of the panel box I had duplicated and had a closer look at it to refresh my memory. The 12-volt feed from the Onan actually has it's own dedicated armoured cable line which runs from the bottom of the gen box, along the right side wall/floor line, passing under the 2 x 4 supports for the wireless battery trays and along the front wall/floor line under the wireless table. Once it passes the large grounding strap of the big copper bus bar assembly, it jogs up the wall and ends in a standard elongate electrical connection box. Bruce has it very nicely drawn in. On the floor at that point under the wireless table would have been a bracket holding two Grant Batteries. Those batteries are pretty specialized bits of equipment back in the day, which just adds to my curiosity about the whole Onan setup. What purpose was being met with all this specialized equipment?

Got some time before dinner, so I think I will try scanning in the shielding installation info I found earlier and see if it takes OK.

David

Bus bar and wireless table
 

David,

Grant batteries , you got me there again.

What are they ?

In the pictures , taken inside Mr. André Gibeau 's ( whom i highly respect ) box

at the War Museum we see the bus bar you are refering to.


Robert

12 VDC feed on the Cypher clerk's side
 

Still in Mr Gibeau's marvelous truck in the War Museum we see the 12 VDC feed of the + and - poles with external feed to the table just outside the box.

The cable that feeds the power looks like it's coming from the front wall and thence the right side wall where all the current is regulated through the panel .

Mystery solved ?

I think the scan of the Ignition Shielding Information worked out OK so here (hopefully) are the first five pages:

Last four pages are here:


David

1- Wartime Wireless 5 truck 2- and the best WW2 Sherman
 

Gents,

- 1- Wartime picture in Canada of a C-15 A cab 13- round hatch Wireless 5 .

Snow on the ground , so winter of 44-45, H Huts , so a base in Canada , canadian civilian cars , so active base not a storage yard.

The best picture i have ever seen of the ''Gin Palace ''

-2- ( unrelated to the subject ) The Bomb from the Sherbrooke Fusilier Regt ( 27 th Armoured ) , the only Sherman to make it from D Day to VE Day.Also, from the unit that killed Wittman, the Nazi idol . Broadside , from a Firefly variant of the Sherman . Wittman tought he was rolling through wheat fields in Ukraine pushing back retreating reds. He met the Canadians in Normandy instead .

Here is what the design branch records have to say in the entry for this vehicle. Note there is no tow hitch on the truck. It was considered as self contained, and the weight already likely taxed that poor little stovebolt 6 to it's limit.

Below is the text from the entry for this vehicle.

Interesting mod with the four large guards protecting the antennae chimneys. Must have been working that truck in heavy bush country. The mail slot in the side window shows up quite nicely as well, Robert.


Thanks for posting.


David

Wire 5
 

Rob, great pictures.

On the first picture i see a square hatch , so earlier model with all metal ( heavy ) box.

On the third picture we clearly see the blackout lights kill switch for the rear door and the 110 VAC outlet in the front of the inside of the box.

Text entry for truck
 

Rob,

The text entry answers most if not all questions.

How come the max Gross weight of my version of the truck is only 8500 lbs ?

Robert:

I checked the GVW of the 15cwt vans where they were simply modified cargo boxes to see if the gross weight on those was lighter. They are in fact identical. A few collectors in the early days installed the house type bodies on cab and chassis that were actually built for the earlier cargo box with tarp and fitments.

Here is some more on the development of the 15cwt and 30cwt boxes as the two are closely related. You'll have to excuse the photographs as opposed to scanning the pages. These books are fairly rare and I do not wish to break their spines.

There is also a section on penthouses in these books, however they unfortunately do not show the 15cwt penthouse, but instead show the 3 ton and others.

Grant Batteries
 

Gosh Robert where do I start? :wacko:

The Grant Storage Battery Company came into being in the late 1800's, possibly a little later than the Excide Company. Grant's claim to fame was development of a super rugged, what they called 'Deep Discharge' or 'Deep Cycle' Lead Acid Battery. They became very popular for use in submarines, electric street cars and other vehicles, as well as in the communication sector, back in the days when distributed electrical power was almost non existent. They also developed an excellent line of battery chargers. I think they were eventually bought out by Excide just before WW2 but the Grant Charger and Battery line survived well into the 1960's.

The sign image I posted shows the battery we are talking about here.

The two basic, critical features of a lead acid storage battery are it's capacity (how much power it can hold) and it's discharge cycle (how long the battery can deliver it's full capacity before reaching full discharge).

Your typical car battery can be considered at the low end of the performance spectrum. It will only give you it's full capacity for about 20% of it's discharge cycle. This is great for starting your car, even if you have to crank it a few times. From that point on, it capacity to deliver power drops off fairly quickly. If you work one of these batteries too hard ( deep discharge it) too often, you significantly shorten it's life expectancy.

By comparison, the Grant Battery was designed as a deep discharge battery. It could deliver full capacity for about 75% of it's discharge cycle, though I think it was recommended to recharge at around the 50% point to maximize the life of the battery. The huge advantage for the military with these batteries was you could run a wireless set off them for a hell of a long time without needing to recharge. But they were expensive in the day.

The standard 'Wireless' batteries the military used with their wireless equipment probably fell somewhere between a car battery and the Grant in terms of performance.

Which brings me back to wondering what the heck specialized purpose were some of these 2K1 equipped Wireless Trucks used for? :bang:

A purely wild thought, but if you have both penthouses deployed on a 2K1 Truck, there is a huge problem with the right side penthouse. The gen box muffler will exhaust directly into that penthouse. Could the Grant batteries have provided enough run time of the wireless equipment to be able to cycle the generators when the penthouse was not being used??? I'm really reaching here not aren't I…???!!!

I wouldn't be too sure of it being an early model The wheel s have the lifting flanges, and the rear POL holders are the late type which held 5 gallon Jerry cans as opposed to the lighter and smaller POW cans.

Rob.

Great info!

Thanks,


David

Chev C-15A Wire 5
 

Thank-you Both David and Rob.

A most fascinating variant of the CMP to say the least !

So now we know pretty much where the wires run and the batteries stand.

We know pretty much what equipment was carried , including masts, antennae rods .

Blackout switches and curtains , lights, ventilators , windows.

Q. Was there ever a Onan generator version during WW2 ?

Q. Was there another radio than the WS 19 used during WW2 ?

Basic and fundamental questions. Do we have references ?

;)

Robert.

Has the Wiring Diagram on the inside of the panel box door survived in your truck? On many of the boxes I have seen, this diagram was either badly torn, badly stained, painted over or missing completely.

David

wireless 5 project
 

David,

The %?&*%$%? door is missing ... all the rest is there.

Why did someone feel the urge to tear off the darn generator compartment door and keep everything else ?