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-   -   M113 Lynx photos needed for book project (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25008)

Ed Storey 31-12-15 15:59

'In House Designation'
 
Does anyone have a copy of an actual FMC document that uses the term M113 1/2 or is this all conjecture?

Douglas Greville 04-01-16 10:21

I don't post messages with conjecture stated as fact.

If I am doubtful about something I say so.

FMC changed the name of the vehicle multiple times, I have the relevant images.

Regards
Doug

Douglas Greville 04-01-16 11:15

1 Attachment(s)
Does anyone recognise the Lynx in the attached pic (hopefully attached)?

It is not listed as a preserved vehicle, so perhaps it ended up elsewhere or as a target?

maple_leaf_eh 05-01-16 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville (Post 218777)
Does anyone recognise the Lynx in the attached pic (hopefully attached)?

It is not listed as a preserved vehicle, so perhaps it ended up elsewhere or as a target?

The background looks like my youthful memory of the crosswalk between two buildings at Canadian Forces Base Valcartier. It might belong to one of the R22eR (or Vandoos) battalions.

Douglas Greville 05-01-16 03:03

Terry

Thanks for that. From what I have seen on the internet, most of the preserved vehicles are missing their CFR numbers. There are some vehicles that everyone seems to photograph and then others that nobody does.

eg. these 3

Riviere du Loop Quebec

J. R. Vicars Armoury - Kamloops

Fort McMurray Legion

Regards
Doug

Mike Gray 05-01-16 18:36

Correct me if I am wrong here, but does not the Ontario Regimental Museum in Oshawa Ontario possess and operate 2 M113's?

Ontario Regiment Museum 05-01-16 21:15

Hello Mike,
We possess just over a dozen vehicles of the M113 family, 3 of which are operational Lynx's.

Wayne Hingley 07-01-16 04:52

Sherbrooke Qc Lynx
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here is a photo from today of the Lynx located at the armoury in Sherbrooke (67-35979). Sorry, I didn't have time to clean all the snow off it before the photo!

jdmcm 07-01-16 07:11

Robin I believe the Lynx you speak of from the Littlefield debacle ended up in Colorado and was cut apart to make a German tank replica

Douglas Greville 07-01-16 07:13

1 Attachment(s)
Hey Wayne

That looks like Lynx that someone threw pink paint on in 2007.

See pic.

Interesting that the plaque states the CFR but the vehicle is otherwise devoid of markings. Any idea of the CR2 number?

Regards
Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley (Post 218942)
Here is a photo from today of the Lynx located at the armoury in Sherbrooke (67-35979). Sorry, I didn't have time to clean all the snow off it before the photo!


Wayne Hingley 07-01-16 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville (Post 218950)
That looks like Lynx that someone threw pink paint on in 2007.

Yes, that is the same Lynx. I have gone past it hundreds of times, but never stopped to look it over closely. There are others on MLU who are actually from the Sherbrooke area. Perhaps they know more about this vehicle.

On my next visit to Sherbrooke I can get more info and a better photo if there is no snow, and if the temperature is above -20C.

Douglas Greville 07-01-16 12:02

1 Attachment(s)
John

The Australian army trialed that vehicle (actually quite a few nations did) against an M114, they managed to sink it and rolled the M114.

They decided they did not require either.

See attached pic of M114, waiting to have it's belly tickled.

Regards
Doug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmcm (Post 218949)
Robin I believe the Lynx you speak of from the Littlefield debacle ended up in Colorado and was cut apart to make a German tank replica


Douglas Greville 07-01-16 12:09

1 Attachment(s)
Wayne

Ok thanks.

The CR2 number can be found stamped into the far upper RHS glacis plate. Or above the engine bay rear door handle.

I will try and attach a pic of location, but seem to be having issues attaching pictures.

Regards
Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley (Post 218959)
Yes, that is the same Lynx. I have gone past it hundreds of times, but never stopped to look it over closely. There are others on MLU who are actually from the Sherbrooke area. Perhaps they know more about this vehicle.

On my next visit to Sherbrooke I can get more info and a better photo if there is no snow, and if the temperature is above -20C.


Peter Phillips 07-01-16 15:40

I believe I have a pic of a CH-147 (Chinook) lifting a disabled Lynx while on excercise in Chilcotin, BC, Jan 1987. I'll scan and post it if I can locate it. FWIW I backed a Lynx into a M-113 Queen Mary when off loading from my flat deck breaking a headlight on the 113 with the toboggan rack on the Lynx (remember those contraptions?). They were peppy little suckers compared to a 113. One of those oops moments :doh:

Douglas Greville 07-01-16 23:27

Peter

Ok, you've got me, what is an M-113 Queen Mary?

I have never heard of that version before.

I take it that it was the exact opposite of a Lynx and was a slug?

Regards
Doug

Richard Farrant 07-01-16 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville (Post 218984)
Ok, you've got me, what is an M-113 Queen Mary?

Think it may have been a Command Post version.

Douglas Greville 07-01-16 23:41

Richard

Thanks. First time I have ever heard they had a name, perhaps it is a Canadian only thing?
A Lynx and one of those would be polar opposites I should think. Lynx 8 ton, M577 are around 12 ton IIRC.

Regards
Doug

Mike Cecil 08-01-16 01:15

Aust Trials
 
I seem to remember the Aust trials were the Lynx, M114 and the in-service recon vehicle, the Daimler Ferret Mk.2 as the 'comparator'. From memory, the 'flip' referred to by Doug was during the tropical trials at Tully, and the sinking was in Ubanangee Swamp, also during the tropical trials in Queensland.

After determining that neither of the tracked vehicles would be acceptable, the Aust Army later opted for the M113A1 equipped with the T50(Aust) turret, which was already in service as the APC. The recon version of the M113A1 was called the Light Recon Vehicle (LRV), the difference when first introduced being the APC was equipped with 2 x .30 cal MGs, while the LRV had the .30/.50 combination. Soon after, the .30/.50 combination became the standard for both vehicles.

Mike C

Peter Duggan 08-01-16 03:17

Fort McMurray Legion
 
Doug,

The Fort McMurray Legion does not have a Lynx. They do have a Chieftain, on loan from Jack Cross.

Peter

Douglas Greville 08-01-16 03:25

Peter

Thanks for that.

Just goes to show you can't believe what you read on the internet, even from those who profess to have documented the locations of preserved AFVs, which is the case for Ft McMurray.

Just to be sure, have you been there/live there and had a look?

What also confuses things, is that sometimes this stuff gets moved. Aberdeen Proving Ground being the classic example.

Lets be thankful we are not into the subject of the locations/fates of WW2 U-Boats, what a can of worms that one is!

Regards
Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Duggan (Post 218991)
Doug,

The Fort McMurray Legion does not have a Lynx. They do have a Chieftain, on loan from Jack Cross.

Peter


Peter Duggan 08-01-16 03:34

Ft McMurray
 
Doug,

It wasn't there at Christmas, or anytime since 1978.

Peter

Douglas Greville 08-01-16 03:54

Peter

Ok, thanks.

That's a definite then.

There was a display Grant that had been modified as an observation post for the British nuclear tests at Maralinga. I came across it by accident at a tiny base on the outskirts of Adelaide years ago. Then later, on the internet, I saw it listed and another one at a different location in Adelaide (Keswick).
You guessed it, there is only one and it had been moved, but the original location had never been notated to show the move or the listing deleted.

Perhaps the person who did the original listing was unaware of the move/had lost interest/just didn't care. False information hangs around just as much as correct information.

So that meant that anyone into Grants thought there were 2 nuclear ones in Adelaide.

Thus the need to verify.

Regards
Doug

Peter Phillips 08-01-16 05:43

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Phillips (Post 218965)
I believe I have a pic of a CH-147 (Chinook) lifting a disabled Lynx while on excercise in Chilcotin, BC, Jan 1987. I'll scan and post it if I can locate it. FWIW I backed a Lynx into a M-113 Queen Mary when off loading from my flat deck breaking a headlight on the 113 with the toboggan rack on the Lynx (remember those contraptions?). They were peppy little suckers compared to a 113. One of those oops moments :doh:

Sorry my memory is slipping. I did witness a Chinook lifting a Lynx in B.C. and distinctly remember the rotors bending up trying to get it out of the snow. Here's the pic I must have taken; a chinook lifting an Iltis jeep and of a queen mary command post M113. I did smash two armoured vehicles together though; got the extra duties to prove it, lol.

Mike Cecil 08-01-16 05:51

Doug,

I think you will find that the Grant in question was modified for the Australian Malkara missile tests, rather than for the British Nuclear tests.

Mike

rob love 08-01-16 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Phillips (Post 218998)
Sorry my memory is slipping. I did witness a Chinook lifting a Lynx in B.C. and distinctly remember the rotors bending up trying to get it out of the snow. Here's the pic I must have taken; a chinook lifting an Iltis jeep and of a queen mary command post M113. I did smash two armoured vehicles together though; got the extra duties to prove it, lol.

Queen Mary's model number is M577A1. There were upgrded here in Canada to A2 and I believe a small number are now upgraded to A3.

Douglas Greville 08-01-16 07:42

Mike

Ok, thanks. Another case of being fed wrong information. It came from a military source, so I did not have reason to doubt it.

Regards
Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil (Post 218999)
Doug,

I think you will find that the Grant in question was modified for the Australian Malkara missile tests, rather than for the British Nuclear tests.

Mike


Mike Cecil 08-01-16 23:20

Probably the same source that informed me of the same thing a few years ago: when it arrived at its new home, I was contacted via the Tank Museum and asked if I knew anything about the 'Grant modified for the atomic tests' (since I'd written about the tests in relation to Centurion).

On being shown an image, it was obvious it was the Malkara observation platform, the provision of which was covered in the Malkara papers at NAA, and is the vehicle visible in several images of the Malkara testing at Woomera.

We have all heard (and to my sham, believed!) 'furphies', Doug: a forum like this does help to dispel them. :salute:

Regards

Mike

Perry Kitson 09-01-16 00:41

The Lynx manufactured for the Canadian army had the observer moved to a position to the left rear of the commanders cupola. Perhaps this is the reason CR-1 and CR-2 manufacturers designations.

Douglas Greville 09-01-16 00:42

Furphies
 
2 Attachment(s)
Whilst on the subject of furphies, I have seen on the web that the Lynx did not use an M113A1 power pack.

This doesn't seem right to me.

Granted the Lynx did not have any hydraulics, so did not need the hydraulic pump that is normally on the 113 power pack, but other than that, I would be really surprised if FMC especially made a different version only for the Lynx.

From what I have seen, the Lynx pack lacks the hydraulic pump, has a step added above the transfer box engagement lever and that is about it.

See pics (hopefully), they are from Anthony Seward's walkaround set which can be found several places on the internet.

Regards
Doug

Douglas Greville 09-01-16 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson (Post 219028)
The Lynx manufactured for the Canadian army had the observer moved to a position to the left rear of the commanders cupola. Perhaps this is the reason CR-1 and CR-2 manufacturers designations.

Perry

To the best of my knowledge that is exactly the reason for the 2 different designations.

There was a "Super Lynx" version, but nobody bought it, so it never got beyond prototype stage. Outwardly it looked pretty much the same hull, with an uprated engine and weapons station IIRC. I don't have the details.

Regards
Doug


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