Ford F-15A speedometer cable routing- solution?
 

Hi Lynn et al,

Just jumping back to getting a speedometer cable length and route for my F-15A I think I may have a solution:

I tried running the longer cable through various parts of the chassis and along the chassis rail. Nothing seemed satisfactory. Either the bends were too sharp or it ran very close to clutch, brake, or handbrake rods and levers. I went back to the idea from the sketch of running it along the handbrake to transmission bracket.

I found only one unused hole in the transmission crossmember was large enough to allow the speedometer end nut to pass through and it was the one closest to the handbrake bracket. It allowed a sweeping bend from the transfer case to it and well cleared the handbrake rod that runs above the transfer case.

I noticed holes in the same place on three floor assemblies and thought there must be a reason they were factory drilled there. Putting a chassis clip there held the cable well away from any rods and allowed a gradual bend along the cab floor rails. The cable now passes well above the rods.

On a spare cab I bought were the two clips on the back of the engine cover clips. I carefully repositioned them on this truck at the time not knowing what they were for. Assumed it was for the wiring. They work out well to guide the cable to where it penetrates the cowl.

Finally measured up the long cable up and it is about 14" too long. I have teed it up to have it shortened to 105" by Flexible Drive. I have read 84" was the length of a F-15A cable but I cannot see how it can be done without very tight bends and straight runs between points.
This may or not be all correct but it seems like the best solution unless some other info is forthcoming.

Hope this is of some interest.

Cheers,

Speedometer cable routing
 

Jacques, I was trying to catch up with your tread, so only just read this otherwise I would have responded earlier.

If it is of any use to you, I would glady make some pictures of the speedometer cable routing on my 1943 F15A. I has the civilian instrument cluster, but I'd say the routing for the later speedometer would be the same.

Ford F-15A speedometer cable routing
 

Hi Hanno,

That would be great! I've been trying to find the original routing for a long time now. Never found an existing one on any paddock vehicle I have looked at or found anything in a publication. The route I took was the best I could make to clear transfer case linkages, handbrake rods, clutch rods, brake master cylinder rods, and electrical items like the battery cable and chassis wiring.

I haven't taken it to be shortened yet so that information would help greatly to get the length right. Still cannot see how it can be done in 84" but always willing to keep an open mind.

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Ford CMP speedometer cable routing
 

Good Day Hanno,

I may have answered my own question. Revisiting my various publications and studying the diagrams I noticed what could be the speedometer cable passing over the engine. See attached.
I am now thinking 84" may be the correct length but will wait until later today to check it out. Seems unusual to have it go above the engine, but when I was researching speedometer cables I read they should be kept away from hot exhaust manifolds. My route in the previous post puts it very close to the right exhaust manifold. A photo on the engine and transmission colours thread shows an open engine bay from above on a Polish CMP truck but I could not see any speedometer cable. As the truck was under maintenance perhaps it was removed for access.
The other thing I noticed was the clips on the ignition wire conduits. I saved them off some other conduits but don't really know where they are used. Perhaps they are to clip the speedometer cable to the conduit? They have the right diameter opening for the cable. Would make sense not to have it flapping around on the engine.
Anyway we are back to Covid19 lockdown in Melbourne so more time to go back over things like this. I cannot legally go to a different area so going to get the cable shortened will just have to wait 6 more weeks.
I will still be interested to see how your cable is routed Hanno.

Cheers,

Jacques sorry to keep you waiting, hope to take the necessary pics this week. Remind me after the weekend if you don't see anythng posted here!

Ford F-15A speedometer cable routing
 

Hi Hanno,

No worries. Will look forward to the pictures. Hope I am on the right track now with the cable over the engine instead of beside it.

As I mentioned, Melbourne is in lockdown for Covid19 so I won't be venturing too far from home for the next 6 weeks. The speedometer cable company is on the other side of town for me. Even a trip to an adjoining suburb, without a good excuse, could result in a large fine under our emergency laws.

Thanks, and stay well too.

Cheers,

Speedometer cable routing
 

Your manual diagram indeed shows the speedometer cable.

Well Jacques, I finally took to time to crawl under my 1943 F15A. I can't vouch for the routing to be the orginal one, but this is how it has been routed for the past decades and it works.

Behind the speedometer:

Attachment 115066 Attachment 115067

Coming through the engine cowling it dives straight down past the engine in between the 2nd and 3rd cylinder.

Attachment 115068 Attachment 115069

And then dives past the cylinder head into the chassis:

Attachment 115070

Speedometer cable routing #2
 

The speedometer cable somehow snakes in between the clutch and brake mechanism:

Attachment 115071

And then passes through the cross member:

Attachment 115072

On the other side of the chassis cross member it snakes up and then into the speedometer cable attachment on the transfer case:

Attachment 115073


Taking a close look for the first time I wondered about how loosely fitted this is. And I wonder how it manages not to get snagged by the clutch and brake mechanism? So not sure this is the orginal cable routing, though it is the shortest route from speedometer to transfer case.

I hope this is of some help.

Shaft-speedometer C29Q-17262
 

I have NOS shaft-speedometer C29Q-17262 for the F15A.

I unpacked it and measured it up. From tip to tip it measures 216 cm = 85 inches.

Attachment 115074 Attachment 115075

F-15A Speedometer cable routing and length
 

Hi Hanno,

I cannot thank you enough for the photos and length information. After 30 years climbing over relics, not finding a single speedometer cable on any truck, I finally have the right information.

*C29Q 17262 is listed in my F-15A parts list as the shaft for the "new design" cab, i.e. Cab 13 I would assume.

I notice you have the vertical entry cable at the transfer case speedometer gear. Mine is the later horizontal. I will check out my truck and see if it adds any extra distance to the length where it penetrates the crossmember. At least I got that right.

I have determined for a round speedometer that the distance from the speedometer ferule end to the transfer case ferule end is 35mm-41mm less than the shaft depending on whether the transfer case shaft end has a shoulder on it or not. (See attached). If no shoulder on the tip the shaft goes 6mm further into the driven gear and 6mm less into the speedometer. That may be acceptable, but I prefer full engagement of the shaft in the speedometer. That makes the casing length about 83-1/2" (2121 mm). It may, however, be slightly different for a Ford commercial speedometer due to different end nuts at the speedometer.

Knowing this I can now get my cable shortened.

Many thanks again for your help.

Cheers,

not finding a single speedometer cable on any truck?
 

Hi Jacques, happy to be of help. It is the least I could do in return for the wealth of information you post on here.

Interesting note about not finding a speedometer cable on any truck in Australia. Either they were in short supply so every Blitz was stripped off it, or seeing most of the Blitz' are used as paddock bashers, tree sniggers or whatever you call them, there was no need for a speedometer!

Speedometer cables MIA
 

Hi Hanno,

I think that is it, also maybe removed to prevent fouling during an engine change and never put back. Also in the case of F-15's and F-15A's you can add missing handbrake cables going to the backing plates to prevent fouling on stumps. Hydraulic brake lines also go missing. Bolt cutters seem to be the weapon of choice in all cases.

Thanks. As researchers say, go to the source. Nothing beats measuring and sighting an original, be it a part or a document.

Cheers,

Ford F15 /A information.
 

Hullo Jaques, I have always enjoyed reading your posts. the informaion available on MLu is terific.
I have just aquired a F15 A, it was a bushfire truck out here in the western riverina so is a bit knocked about but mot a lot of rust. Because there was no room in my shed it has gone to my son's. he had it running in less than 24 hours.
it has been fitted with a 2 speed transfer case and a trensmission handbrake so I do not have to chase up handbrake cables to the rear wheels.
I have been following the discussion about spedo. cables and realise I will havs the same headakes. In your photos you show a cable end with what I would call a key / keyway set up, I have never seen Ford use these. Detroit diesel and maybee GM used them. What are they from?
I hope John will put information up about his progress on MLU

Ford CMP speedometer shaft ends- transfer case
 

Hi John,

The keyway end or tang end, as some manufacturers call them, at the transfer case seems to be another thing unique to these vehicles compared to standard Ford vehicles. I don't know why they use them. Perhaps the transfer cases are outside supply to Ford so that is what they are given.

Civilian Ford car and truck speedometers of course are driven from the transmission as there is no transfer case.

All civilian Fords use a driven speedometer gear with a square hole for the shaft. The shaft is flattened to a 0.104" square to go into this hole, same as the speedometer end. This is why no cable from any of the old Ford parts suppliers will work on a Ford CMP except maybe an F-15. They have a standard 20 tooth driven gear with a square hole, which is located on the rear transmission mount as used on 4 x 2 four speed transmissions.

Clark Brothers Instruments catalogue, available online, show some of the fittings used on speedometer cables. The nuts have not changed since WW2 and are still available. Male 3/4-20 UNEF at the commercial speedometer and Female 7/8-18 at the transfer case. Likewise the 0.203" lower tang tip which looks identical to mine and is the same dimensions. I think your connection to Detroit Diesel makes a lot of sense as Clark Brothers supply a lot of instrumentation for the big rigs. These tang tips obviously are used by some of them.
Don't know availability here of their products but at least it is a reference if someone has to talk to a cable manufacturer.

Hope this is of some interest and help.

Cheers,

Speedometer cable at transfer case:
1. I don't know whether Ford and Chevrolet use identical cable tips at the transfer case.
2. If they are the same, Phil Waterman put Chevrolet measurements on his web site at http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ge%20Notes.htm
3. From memory (not to be trusted 100%) I think Clark Brothers Instruments http://www.clarkbrothers.net/catalogs.html had similar tips but not absolutely identical to Chevrolet. My memory is that the precise cable and sheath weren't obviously available but I may not have looked hard enough....



A couple of days ago I made up a dummy to see whether the sheet metal guide at the transfer case could be replicated on a bead roller. No photos at this time but the summary is "exact to the nth degree" - no, but functional should be possible.

The riveted carriers use a drive like that. The cable nuts (female) are brass thread, so probably British origin. May be that kind of drive is as well?

Ford and Chev transfer case speedometer cable ends
 

Hi Grant,

I had a look at Phil's drawing and my dimensions are the same where it connects to the driven gear: tip diameter = 0.203", height of tang = 0.040"
Overall length is different. Mine is shorter at 1.20" (nominal 1-3/16" same as Clark Bros tip J-2) Likewise my shoulder position is the same as J-2, 3/4".
There is also no O-ring notch on mine or tip J-2.
My shoulderless tip has the same tip diameter and tang height.
Both tips were pulled out of Ford transfer cases that looked like they hadn't been touched since WW2. It has just dawned on me. I think the J-2 type came from a two speed transfer case and I think it had a large diameter casing. I replaced my 2 speed with the single speed in keeping with a F-15A. The shoulderless type definitely came out of a single speed case and had a remnant or 1/4" diameter casing on the ferule.

The only bare steel outer casing Clark Brothers stock is bulk 0.25" OD which is the Ford commercial and F-15, F-15A size. Perhaps Ford used a larger casing on their two speed transfer cases too?
Covered sizes may be the same as Chev, without the covering, but I will leave that to the Chev guys to determine.

Cheers,

F-15A and F-60L Speedometer cable part numbers
 

Good Day.

Further to previous post and to keep it short:

Does anyone have the Ford F60L-01 Spare Parts list?

It would be interesting to see if the part numbers were the same for the speedometer casing and shaft of the F-15A and F-60L as fitted to new design cabs.

For the F-15A:

*C29Q 17261- Casing Speedometer shaft. Used with new design cab
*C29Q 17262- Shaft Speedometer. Used with new design cab

I would think the lengths would be similar based on location of driven gear.
If different part numbers, it might explain a larger diameter casing on a two speed transfer case.

Cheers,

F60L spare parts list
 

F60L-01 parts list

F60L Parts List entry for Speedometer cables
 

Hi Jacques,

The F60L-01 parts list Dec 1942 issue shows:

C01Q 17261 Casing speedometer - used to serial #21565 with old design cab
C29Q 17261 Casing speedometer shaft - used from serial #21566 with new design cab.
106749 - key, speedometer drive gear (74142-S)

C01Q 17262 shaft, speedometer, used to serial #21565 with old design cab
C29Q 17262 shaft, speedometer - used from serial #21566 with new design cab.

*083065: Sleeve speedometer drive gear (C01Q-17269
* 1809553: Gear speedometer driven - 14 teeth (C01Q-17271-D)
*284414: Bushing - speedometer driven gear (C01Q-17277)
*1809534: Gear-speedometer driving - 4 teeth (C01Q-17285)
C01Q-17288 Spacer, speedometer gear.

Hope that helps. - Edit: looks like I was typing while GJ was scanning!

Mike :salute:

F-15A and F-60L speedometer cables
 

Hi Graeme and Mike,

Thanks for your replies. Based on those same numbers, Ford single and two speed transfer cases used the same speedometer casings and shafts on the Cab 13's. Hanno's speedometer shaft would slot right into a F-60L casing.

Only the following are different:
Driving gear, C01Q-17285-A (4 teeth) Note: this is also listed as part 1809534 same as the F-60L part number. "A"?
Driven gear, C011WQ-17271 (15 teeth)

The key, sleeve, bushing, and spacer are the same part numbers as the single speed case.

Thank heaven I keep a box of "samples". Since posting the previous posts I found the ferule and remnant of the casing from what I believe was the two speed transfer case.
It measured 0.452" in diameter which would be nominally 7/16"
This does not prove anything, however, as the transfer case was installed in the modified F-15A chassis so the casing could have come from anywhere. Different supplier or even a Chevy perhaps? Bush engineers grab whatever is laying around.
I am fairly certain the transfer case had Ford markings on it but it is long gone to check.

Cheers,

Cable routing
 

This could be helpful, there's a clip on the underside of the engine cover clip mount, and another higher up in this pic from the F60S assembly guide. It's from a pdf uploaded to my facebook group by Mariano Paz.

Thanks Keith, that image confirms the routing of the cable alongside the engine. I now know the cable on my F15A needs some clips to secure it.

Re. Mariano’s file, it is on the MLU Forum FB group also and I have shared it on the Forum here as well: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31370

Ford CMP- Speedometer cable routing
 

Hi Keith and Hanno,

That is great information again! Would not be surprised if the clips used to hold the handbrake cables at the rear springs are not the same and just repurposed.
It may also account for the hole on the frame of the floor.

I will still climb over paddock relics, just the same!

Cheers,

Ford CMP- Speedometer cable routing instructions
 

Good Day,

Here is the written description of the speedometer cable routing which is very specific.

Thanks again to Mariano's information and Keith's good spotting.

Now with the thought of an extended Covid19 lockdown in Melbourne I decided to have a go at shortening the cable myself. Could be 9 more weeks without being allowed to travel except for essentials.

Tony Ganmain kindly suppled me with an old cable and I was actually able to twist and pull the speedometer ferule off it. Yesterday I gently tapped some of the staking groove out of it and it is still a tight fit on my casing. I shortened the casing with a Dremel cut off wheel. Perhaps a bit of JB Weld for security and the same for the shaft where it goes into the tang tip. Worth a try anyway. I was told the cost to shorten mine would be the same as a new one so if it doesn't work out nothing is lost.

Will post results when finished.

Cheers,

Jacques, great to see that installation instruction.

Amazing eh? Thanks to a Canadian manual sent to Argentina a lifetime ago, your days having to crawl over Blitzes in paddocks are finally over :D

Community
 

Worldwide community working together!

:thup2: :thup2:

This couldn’t have happened without the internet!

I'm glad that the manual I shared with you is very helpful!
If anyone has the Late Ford Fat Drivers Manual to share, I will be very grateful. Due to the economic crisis that my country is going through, at this time purchases abroad are prohibited. My Paypal account is blocked and I could not pay a penny for a manual or spare part.

Thanks in advance!

Mariano, place a separate wanted ad for a Ford FGT drivers manual, that way you will get better exposure of your question. I have not seen one, but you never know what turns up - like we have seen with your assembly manual!