Ede, Holland 1945
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The attached photos were taken by my father when he was stationed in Ede, Holland from mid-May 1945. The only notes on the photos are "mine destroying Sherman" and "prewar French tank" (iron cross on turret).
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German Panther tank;
British Sherman V "Crab" mine flail tank; French Char B1 captured by the Germans in 1940 and re-used (it may have been fitted a flame thrower). Thanks for sharing! |
Ede 1945
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Going through some of my late father's photos and came across these three photos apparently taken in Ede shortly after the end of hostilities. In photo 1, there are two men in the current - hard to see in the original small photo and only noticed today in checking the scan. I have no idea who they are but assume them to be members of the Canadian Scottish (don't know which battalion) with whom dad was serving at the time. It's possible that I've posted these photos previously. If so, my apology to the moderator. Jon
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Very interesting pictures Jon, thanks for sharing!
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I wonder if that Char B is one of the German Flammpanzer versions that were active around Arnhem?? Alex |
In the photo of the Panther (?), there appears to be "fencing", on either side, that looks to me like tank tracks. If so, might this have been a hastily placed defensive position?
Alex, I checked my "statistics" and see that I had posted the photos previously. I just re-discovered them this week and unintentionally re-posted. Jon |
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It is no problem to bring a topic back to top every now and then because you'll get new readers and responses. It is not unheard of here on MLU that a thread 10+ years old is revived :coffee |
The turret on that Sherman Flail looks VERY disconnected from the hull and the background building in that photo looks very similar to the one behind the Panther. It might be possible to pinpoint the area in Ede from that building, if it has survived, and learn a bit more about what happened to both vehicles.
David |
Yes, well spotted David. Also there is a high wire fence between the tanks and the building that looks the same in both photos. The Sherman has certainly been blown up and the turret moved back about a foot.
David |
A long shot perhaps, but could those photos have been taken in the area of the Simon Stevinkrausene Barracks complex in Ede?
Another possible search direction might be to determine what unit was using Sherman Flails in Ede and if Regimental Diaries list any fatal casualties, when and where. As for time, I would think 17 - 24 April 1944 would be a likely start point. David |
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It would be interesting to see a more recent photo of the area. Thanks for your interest. Jon |
"Oorlogsherinnering - Museum Ede"
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I did a bit of research and Ronald van Riet of the Platform Military History Ede told me these photos were taken at hotel-restaurant De Langenberg. A quick search in the internet yielded some more info.
Shortly after the war ended, around the time Jon's father was there, a small military museum was established. The association "Oorlogsherinnering - Museum Ede" (War remembrance - Museum Ede) was selling ashtrays made from the tins in which food was distributed in April-May 1945 (see Operation Faust). By selling 40,000 ashtrays they hoped to make a profit of 20,000 Guilders to buy De Langenberg and the terrain next to it. Before the war, the owner had built some barracks to house groups for school holidays. A Scouting group also was housed there, but they could not return after the war because of the plans for the museum. During the war, these barracks were used to house NSB (Dutch national-socialist party) youth, horses, and then the roofing material was used for defense trenches. The remains were sold off and Canadian Army had levelled the terrain with bulldozers. Note: in Jon's first and second photo the buildings in the background seem to be in a reasonable condition. So these are other buildings than the barracks next to De Langenberg? I think De Langenberg itself can be seen in the background of the third picture. Somehow the museum association managed to collect the Panther, Sherman Crab and Char B1 they even managed to source a small submarine. No doubt the transportation was done by a Canadian Army unit, probably the same one which did the levelling of the terrain. Reportedly, the Panther's gun was still live - and loaded - and kids often played in it. (I doubt the gun was really still loaded as no doubt the playing kids would have found a way to fire it.) In September 1946 the Association decided not to proceed with their plans for the museum, as the local government wanted only one war museum in the region and Arnhem (approx. 20 kms. away) was deemed a more appropriate location. The intention of the Association was to support the formation of the regional museum by donating all the artefacts they had collected, but it is unknown where the artefacts ended up. None of the tanks nor the submarine went to what would become the Airborne Museum at Oosterbeek, though possibly smaller artefacts went there. Ronald van Riet assumes they went to the Overloon War Museum. I am not sure about the Panther, but the Sherman Crab is not the one in the Overloon museum and the Overloon museum has never had a Char B1. I reckon they were scrapped as there was an enormous need for scrap metal in the early postwar years. De Langenberg is still a restaurant today. In 1990, a Sherman M4(105) was placed on the other side of the road as a memorial for the Canadian liberators - see Google streetview for a current view of the location. References (accessed on 17 December 2020):
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In that case I think it's more likely a house or school in the background, rather than one of the army barracks. Ede at one point had 5 or more Army bases! I visited the sites a few months ago. The whole area is turned into a residential area; some buildings were taken down, while others were redeveloped into houses. Alex |
Nice piece of research Hanno!
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Nice piece of research Hanno !
David |
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Edit: the 2 Panthers in "Theirs is the Glory" are Ausf. D's......so not the one in Jon's picture. |
Battlefield finds
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Now, where did the tanks come from?
The German Army used the French Char B1 in flame-thrower guise. At least four of them were used during the battle for Arnhem. See one below which was put out of action by the British Airborne troops at the Van Borsseleweg in Oosterbeek. Oosterbeek is approx. 17 kms. away from Ede. Attachment 118284 Personally, I am more interested in finding out where the Sherman Crab came from. Jon, is it possible to make a better scan so we can read the census number? We may be able to find it back in Kevin's WW2 database of tank, carrier and vehicle names. Attachment 118285 Quote:
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Hanno, thank you so much for your research. I find it quite amazing and fascinating what the MLU members can determine from such old photos.
Yes, I will try to get a better scan that shows census numbers, but it might not be for a few days. The original photos are in 3"x5" format and have become quite faded. You mention a small submarine. I am quite certain that I have a picture of a picture of a small submarine. As I recall it is placed on two supports, one fore and one aft. I will try to find that photo, as well. However, I think I am in the photo and that it was taken sometime between late 1960 and early 1964, when my family was stationed with the Canadian army in the Ruhr (Hemer specifically) and during which time we made several trips to the Netherlands. I will see what more photos I can find, but it will take a few days. Cheers Jon |
Tank Ede
When I edit the photo with Lightroom, I come across the following number: T148187. Hopefully this can solve the question.
Wout Jansen (Veenendaal 12 km from Ede). |
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Wout beat me to identifying the census number. Here's an enhanced scan f the Sherman Crab. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find the phot of the min-submarine. Will keep looking and post it if I find it, even though this is an armour tread. Jon
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T148187
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A number which is close, T 148141, was assigned to a Sherman V Crab of the 22nd Dragoons, C Sqn, and was named BLENHEIM. @Jon, please post any pictures you may find - always interesting to see and if needed I can move to an appropriate thread |
Ede 1945
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After editing the photo, it produces this result. To the right of the hull is a W?
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The Crab also has a somewhat different attachment of the left side cilinder to the tank....the rearmost stiffening rib securing the bracket and cilinder to the left side of the hull is different from others I have seen. |
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Attached is a picture of a 1st Lothians Crab with the same spare track link rack during a display in Amsterdam 1945.
source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...&rows=1&page=6 Attachment 118353 Also attached are two pictures of 1st Lothians crabs in Velp 1945, april 16th, 1945. See AoS "52". (note that the Crab on left in the first picture is actually a Mk2 crab) source: https://www.geldersarchief.nl/bronne...ding&mif2=Velp Attachment 118354 Attachment 118355 |
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Attached is a picture from WW2talk, courtesy of James Nightingale jnr.
"Bill Wyatts tank brewing up at Arnhem" source: http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads...y.13221/page-2 Judging from the bracket on the turret side this looks a lot like the same Crab as in Jon's picture. It's 1st Lothian and Border Yeomanry. |
I would say it’s probably the same Crab. It not only has the same type of bracket on the turret, but the chain stowage rack on the side is of similar construction (T-angle iron) and there is a long, narrow box on the rear of the engine deck of both tanks.
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Tank Ede.
If you put my edited photo on the hard drive, and you enlarge the image on your screen, I think you can clearly see a "W" on the hull. The number is also easier to read.
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