Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?
 

I´m trying to establish the differences between the

Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933:

Attachment 74976
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...Loyd-M1933.jpg

and Model 1936 "Dutchman":

Attachment 74977
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...kModel1936.jpg

As far as I can see only the bogies and turret differ.

What is more than meets the eye?

Thanks,
Hanno

(Picture source: TANKS!)

Lt Tank
 

Hi Hanno, Can't help with the differences but I can at least provide an additional photo.

Clive

Attachment 74978
http://www.servicepub.com/images/mkiilttk.jpg

Re: Lt Tank
 

Clive,

According to my info, this is a Light Tank Mark 1A4E6: "Considered a real improvement over the earlier Mark 1, the RTC began using this vehicle in October, 1930. Test models for this series were numbered A4E6 to A4E10. India investigated this series and later placed an order for a light tank of their own specifications."

H.

Here is a photo of a Vickers light tank undergoing beach landing exercises. Turret appears to be a wooden mock-up !
I have no idea which mark it is.

Attachment 7400

Re: Re: Lt Tank
 

Hanno,
Not my area of expertise but the photo comes from a binder at National Archives, supplied by Brit WO of vehicles in WO Service. The index identifies it as "Mark II Light Tank". Note that it has markings for WVEE (Wheeled Vehicle Experimental Establishment) ignoring the fact that it is tracked and not wheeled, the marking implies that it is a test vehicle and not necessarily 'in service' yet. Other photos from this binder have been posted in the British Empire Staff Car thread.

Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?
 

Hi Hanno;

- the "Dutchman" had a simpler hull shape and was re-shaped at the rear to give more room internally.

Cheers :)

Thanks Alan. It is a Mark II, which used the same hull as the Mark IA. This is obviously one of the experimental models of the series which were numbered A4E13 to A4E15.
Thanks for sharing this excellent shot.

H.

Re: Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?
 

Hi Mark,

Could you please elaborate on that? Indeed the commercial Models 1933, 1934, 1936, 1937, 1938 were based on the Light Tank Mark I and II but indeed with simpler, roomier hull shapes. But as far as I can tell all of the commercial models were basically the same, only differing in suspension systems, turret shape and armament.

Thanks,
Hanno

Model 1936 "Dutchman" T16689 in Britsh use:
Attachment 74979
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...-Dutchmen1.jpg

Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?
 

Superbly restored Model 1933 at Thun, Switserland. Picture courtesy of Esa Muikku.

Attachment 74980
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...DSC_0077-p.jpg

Differences
 

Hi Hanno
Headlights and whatever that cylinder is to the front of the exhaust system.
Bob

Re: Differences
 

and of course they don't have a supurbly restored instrument panel by salesman Bob :rolleyes: :D

cheers
Cliff:salute:

PS> sorry all I just could not resist :note:

See http://gallery.vondur.net/v/industri...02165.jpg.html for a picture of another survivor, in this case one of eighteen Vickers 4-ton tanks purchased in 1935 by Latvia. This one is one of six cannon-armed M1937, which were not delivered until 1938. This was the only survivor of the Soviet takeover of 1940 and the "Great Patriotic War" (WW2). Today it is resting at Kubinka tank museum where a sign tells that it's a "Latvian export tank".

I've added the picture for future reference, since the owner of the http://vondur.net decided to remove his entire Tank Museum album from his website.

Attachment 74981
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/823/DSC02165.jpg

Swiss Tanks
 

I just discovered this 6 year old topic. The Swiss also used these little tanks (called Panzerwagen 34/35), 6 in total, numbers M+7304 to M+7309. Looking at the period pics I got, they were 1 x model 1933 and 5 x modell 1934. See my blog for some more info in German. And here some technical information. These tanks were put of of service in 1948 and I think two survived.

Before we got the Vickers tanks, we aquired in 1931 two Carden-Loyd Mark VI (numbers M+0206 and M+0207).

Greetings
Chris

... and watch out for the AFV Weapons Profile No 5 "Light Tanks Marks I - VI"

Vickers Light tanks
 

Hi Hanno,
By chance a while back I purchased a copy of the "Handbook for Light Tanks Mks II - VI"
A re-print published by MLRS.
Quite informative, but brief descriptions, some drawings etc.

MkII, IIA, IIB and III had Rolls Royce 6 cyl engines.

MkIV, V, VI, VIA and VIB Meadows 6 cyl engines.

Changes were mainly:

• Engine
• Suspension
• Turret type (armament on the VIC)
• Fuel tank arrangement
• Cooling arrangement

Construction, though basically similar, the type of construction differed in the way hulls were rivetted. Possibly for cost !!!

Contact me, and I can scan various sections.

My reason for buying it was to get more info on the engine, however, not as much as I thought, so I am still after photo's of a Meadows engine and drive unit, out of the vehicle.

George.

Chris,

Thansk for the info. Did know the Swiss had some, now learned they were different models.

Great blog and thanks for the link to the Profile publication.

George,

I know what you mean. Even though Meadows in its day was a well known engine manufacturer, it is strange not much information about them is available.

A few quotes from these web pages:

• http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/G...ightTanks.html: "Powerplant 88hp Meadows ESTE 6cyl"
• http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac....nryMeadows.htm: "Another successful product, the 4.5litre 6 cylinder ‘Type 6’ engine is best remembered as the power unit for Invicta and Lagonda cars."
• http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac..../Buses/ajs.htm: "The chassis was powered by a 25hp. 6 cylinder, Meadows 6ERC overhead valve engine, with an integral 4 speed gearbox."

The last two pages listed show some pictures, although I have no idea if these were even remotely connected to the engine used in the Vickers tanks.

Hanno

... thanks Hanno. Problem already solved. I supplied George with some pics of the Meadows engine and drive train. :note:

greetings
chris

That's great, could you share them here, too?

Here's a possibly comprehensive list of Meadows 6-cylinder engines used in Vickers Light Tanks:

Name | Cylinders | Fuel / Octane | Coolant | Capacity | Power (HP) | RPM
Meadows | 6 | Gasoline | Water | 4.43 liters| 88 | 3,000
Meadows EPT | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 58 | ..
Meadows EST | 6 | .. | Water | .. | 90 | ..
Meadows ESTB/A or ESTB/B | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 88 | ..
Meadows ESTE | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 88 | ..
Meadows ESTL | 6 | Gasoline | .. | .. | 88 | ..

Source: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedkingdom/engines.asp

Vickers Meadows
 

Hi to you both, Chris and Hanno,
Yes some great information re the engine, an added bonus was some details of the gearbox.
The main difference with the MkVI series, the fan was driven by a seperate shaft.
The radiators were mounted over the engine, and a bracket held the fan unit, which had a gear-box that was driven by a shaft running along the engine. This transmitted the drive upwards.

The radiator takes up a lot of room in the engine bay, some museums are getting a bit picky, so to be able to photograph the engine in situ, the radiator would need to be swung up out of the way. As it has a limited movement, even then it would be difficult to photograph properly.

Thanks for all the help guys.

George.

found this turret on the net over xmas and will go and have a shufti for it some time. might even have a go at putting a Dutchman together :thup2:

Attachment 70857 Attachment 70858

Did you go after this turret?

I know of a Dutchman hull, although this was many years ago...

Vickers Carden-Loyd Light Tank Foreign Sales
 

Picture from a works album from Vickers Armstrong Ltd:

Attachment 74983
http://tankdevelopment.blogspot.co.u...foreign_8.html

hanno I went to look for the turret but had no luck and no locals knew of it so might have been a wild goose chase although the farmer told me of a bofors next to a river nearby but that had also gone in the last couple of years :doh:
I did find the remains of a Cromwell on a range nearby but only just enough to fill 2 shopping bags ! the chunk of steel is the mantlet with a piece of bronze cradle still bolted to it.

rick

Attachment 74984 Attachment 74985

Rick,

Found the tread on Fylingdales range.

I'm sorry to hear the turret is gone. Here's hoping it ended up in someone's barn - better for it to be tucked away than chucked in the scrap bin :giveup

Hanno

Attachment 74987

I also hope it has been saved but the truth is it probably got taken to the nearest scrap yard :(
I have to work faster to save this stuff, don't seem to be having much luck lately.

rick

SUCCESS :) a local chap heard of the turret and has got in touch with me and is taking me to see it next sunday.
i love it when a plan comes together :)

Excellent - can't wait to see it!

H.

thanks hanno i'll put some pics up next weekend

it's still there but has deteriorated a little from the pics i initially saw on the web. i've emailed the landowner for permission to recover it and don't see any issues once i get the go ahead as access is very good and thing only weighs about 100 kg. i did look for the rest of it underneath but wasn't that fortunate :D

if all goes to plan i'll get it back to the workshop this month and dry it out before tacking it back together while i decide what to do with it.