15-cwt vs 30-cwt Wireless CMP
 

I didn't want to revive an old post so I'll start a new one instead....

In an old thread discussing the 2K1 van body, CLETRAC posted (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...67&postcount=4) material from Military Vehicle Profiles. I was struck by the period photo shown in the last image (rear right view). A better view of the same photo from Library and Archives Canada can be seen here at www.RCSigs.ca

It is shown in CLETRAC's post on a page about the 15-cwt wireless and it's also the photo used in Gregg's Fighting Vehicles for that vehicle but to me it looks to be a 3J1 body for the 30-cwt Wireless and not the 2K1. I read on a thread elsewhere on this forum that the ladders on the 3J1 supposedly curve above the top of the box although they don't on this photo. The box in question does have lots that point to a 3J1 however - the side windows are farther apart than on a 2K1 indicating a longer body, the distances from the wheel well to the front and back are significantly different where they are pretty well the same on a 2K1, the forward underside compartment is the 3K1 size, and the rear underside compartments on a 2K1 aren't present. It also looks like a photos of a refurbished 30-cwt I found on the forum.

So, can you experts confirm it's a 30-cwt 3J1 that has been incorrectly used in the past... or if I'm crazy? Any idea if there are more period photos out there? I'm trying to gather as much info as possible but so far have found little outside of this forum. Gregg's book doesn't deal with it as the vehicle type was considered obsolete before the time period of his book and Clive Law didn't get to Vol 2...

Any opinions or assistance would be most welcome!

Cheers and Happy New Year!

Hello Joe.

The Wireless Body shown in the right rear view is supposed to be a 15-CWT 2G1 body. If you disregard the aerial setup on the roof and the POW racks under the rear end, the general look is the same as the 15-CWT 2K1 Wireless Body.

I say ‘supposed’ as I think you are right, that vehicle is more likely a 30-CWT Wireless. The span between the side windows is too long for the 15-CWT box and the tool bin under the front end of the box appears stretched.

The other clue is the very deep shadow line between the front of the box and back of cab. That would make more sense being the result of the much larger gap between the 30-CWT box and the back of its corresponding cab.

David

I think you've nailed it. The pics are clearly of a 134" wheel base 30cwt. The question is what's inside. I expect a W/T 43 set.

There was a gap between the signals box on the 30cwt and the cab....just wide enough (14 inches) for the spare tire to be housed there. You can see in the photo a slight extension from the step to the tool box. The tool box is also the larger 3 ton style as opposed to the 15cwt style which had a locking bar across the front.



From what little the Design Branch records talks about on these, the 3-J-1 box was merely the 15cwt box with the extra 18 inches essentially spliced into the box, so that the interior fitments did not have to be changed.



Reports form the field indicated the sigs preferred the 15cwt short wheelbase, and asked for that length of vehicle with the spare relocated elsewhere, which was accomplished by moving the tire into the left side panel of the box (2-G-2 body).


The link you gave to the rc sigs site ID's it as a 30cwt 3-J-1.

Thanks all for the input.

Rob, yes, the site I linked to labelled it as 3J1 but it's my site... I had previously had it as a 15-cwt but then changed my mind. As I was going against published 'truth', I was seeking confirmation. In Canadian Army Overseas Routine Order 2872, dated 11 December 1942, the 30-cwt wireless is marked as 'obsolete' so what you say makes sense.

The hunt for period photos and the interior layout/equipment continues!

Joe C. and others. The photo of the wireless truck you are referring to, is...yes.... a 30cwt, not a 15cwt. Bill Gregg spent hours in the Ottawa archives looking for appropriate pictures to illustrate his pioneering publication. In the process he came across many of the original photographs, used in the official D-Day handbook. When some of the original pics were not available, he chose similar ones. He then handed me a big stack of photo's and documents, put the whole thing together, and published it for him. Bill labeled this a 15 cwt wireless truck, and I pasted it into the layout as such. Mea Culpa. That one got by the both of us. Although, to be fair, they are very similar looking. Should have used a photo of the one now at Oshawa. BTW..it would seem, looking at its data plate..it was serial "number one" of a production run....perhaps for the aluminum bodied Gin-Palace's..?? The rear of the cab has the unique cutout for the canvas covered "speaking tube" between cab and rear body...ie..Driver and Radio crew communicating with each other. Anyway, sharp eyes detected the subtle differences..Especially as the 15cwt ladder does indeed curve over the top.

One comment on the data plates shown above: the chassis is listed as C15A but the publications are listed for C60L. I can't read the vehicle model plate. The presence of one inconsistency makes you wonder if there might be others. On the other hand, I know of very few CMPs that have absolutely no non-original parts (I certainly can't claim total originality for mine).

Grant, Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the C60L on the data plate refers to the appropriate lubrication manual.?

My understanding of the Publications plate is:
C-60-HB1 is the first version of the driver's handbook (incorporating daily maintenance chores performed by the driver, such as lubrication)
MB-C2 is the second version of the maintenance manual for the Chevrolet CMPs (excluding C60X, armored variants (C15tA Otter, Fox)) that goes into greater depth including rebuilding of engine, transmission, transfer case, winch and axles etc.
C-60L-03 is the third version of the parts list for the C60L (158" WB 3 ton truck chassis)
See the attached PDF scans of the covers of these manuals.

The publication plate looks replaced to me.