canadian carrier mk1 gun rest
 

hi im starting to reuild a canadian bren carrier mk1 i was just wondering if somebody have the measurment for the gunrest also the type of steel and wood thank
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Your carrier, being very early, would have had rubber firing rests. The wood ones came into being when rubber got scarce after the fall of Burma.

Personally, I have always used a wood like ash for longevity. Brian Asbury has (or had) the long one from the division plate. Although a bit worn after this many years, they are great for getting dimensions and hole patterns from .

Greetings Sam!
The eight (8) firing rests on your early MK-I* carrier were topped with rubber, the rubber being cast into a shallow metal base, then mounted on angle iron supports. The length of each firing rest is indicated in the Canadian Illustrated Parts Manual, FUC-03.

The metal angle iron supports and their fastener placements will be a challenge for you, that I do not believe have been previously covered in MLU. Perhaps someone can fresh my memory if Nigel Watson in his UC Volumes I-III provided any details?

I think I have all the rubber rests but not the angle iron for all of them. They are made from 2 x 1/8 (50 x 3mm is the available size,here)
Are they all mounted on the outside or inside of the hull or is it a mix?
As a note, i think all the U.C.s that came here were early and had rubber rests. never seen a wooden one here.
The other thing I have trouble with is the high and low ones.Were the high ones from British carriers and the low ones for Canadian carriers. Michael R. has told me there are both in Canada. I wondered if the high ones might have been made for British contract carriers? Any thoughts or answers?

Ok. Working on answering my own question:
There are two on the rear plate. Two on the right side. Two on the div plate, One in the gunners slot, and one on the engine deck.
The right side ones have the angle iron riveted to the inside. (there are rivets still in the angle iron and the holes in the upper hull side plate are countersunk on the outside (rivet head fits here)) It makes sense that the rear ones are the same. Am I on track?

Sam I can probably answer your questions.

Data Plate
 

Nice to see another early example, 6 1941 does the serial number start with T L ? F
Regards K Armitage

Certainly an example of an early data plate attached to its original fender. Now to verify the fender and data plate belong to the hull, using the identifiers particular to those carriers. There are a few visual indicators that point to an early production carrier, such as the correct track adjuster wheel arms, mounting bracket for the early track adjuster ‘crook’, and the lack of a modification to install the sighting vane.

The data plate does not appear to hold the TL XXXX F one may anticipate seeing. Perhaps the 1790 serial number, in addition to the month/year window.

I agree with you, Kirk: it is nice to see these early examples. I am jealous, and Samuel already knows that from our discussions on his FB UC group.

Welcome Sam
 

Aren't you glad we met on Facebook? And that fellow Bob, great resource!

Next trip I take to the Townships, I will do my best to coordinate a visit to see your handiwork.

the serial number 1s only 1790

That is swell!

The firing support for the gunner apeture remained a rubber/composite material throughout the MK-I* production series where so equipped. For example, the factory production mortar carriers built on MK-I* hulls deleted this firing rest. The thickness changed through the applicable part numbers, TL 13009, TL 13009C and TL 13009B, in that numerical/alpha replacement order.

The two firing rests on the rear protection plate were mounted on the exterior of the plate, facing rearward. (provides clearance for the rear passenger when seated against his backrest).

The two firing rests on the driver side, long protection plate, rear compartment were mounted on the interior of the plate, facing inside the hull.

The image of a 1943 production C01UC MK-I* shows the major portions of eight firing rests. Image credit of Ditsong Museum, Joburg, SA.

CTL 13003D Divisonal plate, Right Hand: 16”
CTL 13004C Divisonal plate, Left Hand: 51”
CTL 13005D Side Plate Front: 14”
CTL 13006C Side Plate Rear: 26.5”
CTL 13008C Engine Cover: 22”
CTL 13009B Gunner Loophole: 5”
CTL 13010C Rear Plate, Right Hand: 11”
CTL 13011C Rear Plate, Left Hand: 10.5”


As mentioned earlier, these measurements are published in the Illustrated Parts Manual, FUC-03.
The firing rest measurements may assist with making the necessary firing rest supports, but you will need detailed measurements of the firing rest support angles, engine support bracket and loophole assembly to produce the entire assemblies.

See also two images showing the gunner loophole rest in the two Canadian produced variations showing the change in the height.

Just how much work do you want to do?
 

Sam

Now that you see the correct parts, you have a difficult decision to make. Do you work on locating these perishable parts which haven't been made since the 1940s? Do you attempt to make replica parts from modern rubber? Or, my advice would be, make replica parts from hardwood.

You need to keep momentum on your project. Every restoration is a series of compromises. If you can accept a visual simulation of small parts, you can always come back (or a later owner) can come back and continue the restoration to a higher standard.

Bonne chance!

If anyone can offer assistance with the dimensions for the MK-I* firing rest over the divisional wall, that is the first priority for Sams’ carrier project. Others with UC NO-2 MK-II*’s have previously assisted Sam with upper protection plate dimensions.

terry
I will do it in wood it's easy task for me compare to rubber
it's not "original" anyway
also anytime you by eastern township stop by will be pleasure to show you the project

thank to everybody for the hlep

I can answer Sams questions on the rubber and the steel it mounts on at the div plate.
What do you need to know Sam?

Also if you go wood, go with sapele ! Cheap, good water resistant properties too.

Welcome to the community and good luck with your restoration Sam. Drop by anytime again if you need measurements !

Trip report
 

I had a bit of spare time Sunday morning and was not far away from Samuel's address. I knew the geography, but misjudged the driving condition of the spring roads. The car didn't launch itself into the rhubarb, but frost heaves bottomed the springs a few times! Probably a good thing I kept the speed down because I lifted a half-dozen deer and saw many turkeys in the fields. Quite the bucolic little paradise he's got there.

Sam is a delightful fellow, full of questions and equipped with lots of practical skills. There are at least three outbuildings around the yard, and a very nice squared timber frame farm house. The carrier is in a nice heated workshop (with a big woodpile in front of the door), and is surrounded by the essential tools for the task ahead. Next door he parks his Lamborghini four-wheel drive. (Quite the story for that piece of handsome hardware.) Which is in front of his nicely restored 24v M38. Behind that are a couple of CJ2A jeeps, and quite an assortment of motors. The flathead V8 for the carrier is one that came from a 1940 fire truck. Outside are other military vehicles including a nice M37, and parts of some M38A1s - I think.

The new plate has been drilled and bolts together. In true Green Disease fashion, the first rivet gun he tried wouldn't turn over the heads, so he bought a bigger one! His riveter looks like it came straight off a WW2 propaganda poster. He pointed out the forge he's made too. With a helper, he expects to get the rivets done before the melt takes over and he gets busy with the farm and contracts. Sam's plate metal work is impressive, and he was pointing out mistakes I probably would have accepted.

The biggest problem facing Sam is not motivation, but good drawings and photos to copy as he builds the interior and the engine compartment. When he bought the carrier, it had a Buick V8 sitting up beside the driver and big holes through the partition. That has been corrected, but those essentials like engine mounts, exhaust routing, driveshafts, brakes, etc will all have to be fabricated.

One happy part of the purchase is two full sets of track. He's got them soaking in oil right now. One piece of advice I passed along from reading MLU was the pins have to be dry and softer than the pads. Hmmm? He said, and I could see the thoughts going round his head.

When we looked at the roadwheels, I had to grimace. A couple have some very big gouges. He talked about getting them re-rubbered at a forklift repair shop in the nearest city. Is this worthwhile, or are there better ways to do it?

Terry, the pins are hardened. I have sent info to Sam.

Now this is a riveter!
 

Sorry Sam, you are going to have to go back to the internet to buy a bigger riveter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBwmbX3R3sk

terry i think i will try with mine first but thank for the idea