Staghound Restoration
 

Hello Everyone,
I am pleased to announce that a small group of enthousiast in Belgium has started to restore a Staghound T17E1. The group is called Taskforce Liberty.
The Staghound was probably used by the Canadians and after the war transferred to the Belgian Army and the Gendarmerie (state police). The purpose is to get it running for the 75th anniversary of the liberation in 2019. The owner of the Staghound is the Belgian Army but as they have no further use for it nor place to store it they have given to us in long time loan in order to use it for commemorations, parades, liberation events, etc. We have found the US registration number (USA 6.031.187)on it but that is for now the only thing we know about the vehicle. There are attachment points for the deep wading kit. Is there someone out there who could help us identifying the vehicle in order to find it’s history?
For the facebook users, we have a facebook page with the name Taskforce Liberty that shows all the pictures we have made untill now.

Hope this works. This is the link to our facebookpage:
www.facebook.com/Staghound.be/
Cheers,

Dirk

Great stuff, I hope we see LOTS of pics posted of your vehicle and restoration work. I always liked the Staghound looks and history.

Dirk. What a fascinating Staghound you have to work on!

My wife's Father and Uncles served with the 12th Manitoba Dragoons during and after the war and a neighbour down the lane from my parents also served with that Regiment.

Your vehicle is interesting from so many levels. The US Army was definitely not a major user of this vehicle during the war. I believe a number served with US Forces in Australia and may have been used post war by the Australian Army and I think some were based in the United States during the war, to serve what purpose I do not know. The US certainly sold a number of Staghounds to Central and South American counties post war, but where those vehicles came from I do not know.

I have seen pale blue US Army markings on a few wartime vehicles but it does not seem to have been a common practice. This is the first time as well that I can recall ever seeing a US Army number on a vehicle using the decimal point system of numbering. It would be interesting to know when and why US vehicles used pale blue markings and when the decimal numbering system was in use.

I am not familiar with how other Canadian Regiments that used the Staghound came by their vehicles other than the 12th Manitoba Dragoons. They did not get their vehicles until the Regiment arrived in England, and they were apparently drawn from existing British stocks of the vehicle already in England, so those at least, should not have passed through US Army hands.

I cannot wait to follow your restoration story of this vehicle!

Best regards,


David

Hi David,

Your comment that "..... a number served with US Forces in Australia and may have been used post war by the Australian Army" .... needs some clarification.

US Forces in Australia did not use Staghounds: the T17E1s in Austraia were purchased by the Australian Army in 1943(?) when the local 'Rhino' Heavy Armoured Car project fell over. The type was used in Australia during WW2, and a small number were deployed to Japan as part of BCOF, but were soon withdrawn due to limitations imposed by the road system in the Australian AO.

They remained in service with the Australian Army, mainly the reserve, until the 1970s.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. So even less use by the US Army than I thought.

David

It was my understanding that the blue markings on US vehicles were painted pre-war. Once the war started they went to white.

Blue lettering was for tactical purposes and lasted well into the war. All US vehicles built to US Govt. contracts had a USA serial applied.

My Sherman, built in Sept. 42, had its number written in blue as follows:-

U.S.A. W-3.057.081

It also had its WD number, T-146309 in blue.

Thanks for the clarification Adrian. Was there something to delineate blue numbering from white (date, purpose, origin etc) or was it a change that was rolled out on an as needed basis? Maybe original number in blue and later field revisions in white?

Thank you all for the information.
Is there a way to "calculate" the Commonwealth Registration number (F number) from the USA Registration number? Or is there no relation between the two?

On HMVF..

Staghound NOS Original Head gasket

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...al-Head-gasket

Dirk,

Each Commonwealth country used their own registration system. In Australia, the registration number of Staghounds supplied under lend-lease arrangements was the original USA registration number less the 'USA', ie just the numerals. These were not unique in that regard: many imported AFVs such as M3 Medium and Matilda were identified for Australian registration purposes by the number assigned in their country of origin, less any national identification such as 'USA'.

David: I'm not aware of any US military use of the T17E1 - as far as I know, they were designed and built to a Brit specification and supplied under Lend Lease to the British Purchasing Commission (BPC) for distribution.

Mike

I suspect that was the case but I feel sure later production were in white at the factory.

Generally no. UK and Canadian census numbers were issued in blocks and have no correlation to the USA number.

Thanks for the information.
We think our Staghound was used by the Canadians during ww2. We guess that because on the rear armour we found L-shaped attachement points for what we think was a deep wading kit. (pictures are on our facebook page)
Also the support brackets for the external fuel tanks were removed. We have been told that these were typical Canadian modifications.

Hello Dirk,

Succes with the restauration!
If you need help with remanufacturing sheet metal parts let me know.
I have drawings which I made for my restauration.

You Staghound was made in early September 1943.
The Ordnance serial number should be 4740 and is stamped on the left lower corner of the front armour plate near the fender attaching bolts.
Next to that number, a British acceptance number is stamped also.
There is no mathematical relation between these two numbers but the number should be around the 2200.
I hope you can find these numbers, they can be stamped quite light so they are hardly visible.

Attached photo shows a Staghound with a similar registration number painted in blue.
That car was made later in September 1943.

The Belgian army received some Staghounds as early as in the winter of 1944-1945.


Marco

Hello Marco.

Serial number 4740 is spot on. We found that number yesterday evening just below the attachment points of the front fenders.
Next to it is A 23 I5. I guess the acceptance number.
I'll try to post pictures this evening.

Dirk

Here is a picture of the serial number 4740 and the acceptance number A 23I5

Is there a way to find out the vehicles operational history starting from the serial number 4740 and the acceptance number A 23I5?

Operational history
 

For this, you need records mentioning these numbers.
I am not aware of the existance of such records.
There are (regimental) records mentioning the British war department census number allocated to vehicles.
For Staghounds these are F215xxx, F225xxx, F235xxx, F116xxx and F117xxx.

Is there a chance that the F number still is hidden underneath the paint?

Marco

If you're lucky and find an original number, then you may also find a record card with one of the Armoured Delivery regiments showing transfer to/from a unit...

Canadian archives here..

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...50/311?r=0&s=1

Extract...

Attachment 89649

There are loads of other Staghounds listed in the Canadian Archives.


Tim

Until now we haven't been able to find the F-numbers underneath the existing paint. We believe that between it's military use and the use by the Belgian Gendarmerie the vehicle has been scrubbed in order to paint it in the typical dark blue Gendarmerie paint. In that process the British or Canadian markings were probably removed. The USA Reg.nr. was not removed because that was on an earlier layer of paint. We are very carefull in the restoration process not to remove any markings that could determine the vehicles history. That's why we didn't sandblast the hull but we used a nail gun on air pressure and sand paper to remove the paint and the rust. The floor will probably be the only thing we will sandblast because there is so much rust on it that it would take us ages to remove it with the nail gun. Maybe we are lucky and we can find some markings on the turret.

Dirk,

Did you also check the tyre chain box on the rear of the car?

Marco

Yes, there were no traces of painted lettering but I found the number C116286 stamped in it.

Engine 1 running
 

Hello fellow enthousiasts,
Here is an update in the restoration project.
Three weeks ago we were able to complete a first testrun of the left engine of our Staghound.
The engine itself is completely overhauled.
We made a short movie of this "historic" event.
You can watch it through this link on our website:

http://www.taskforceliberty.be/staghound-motor-test/

The website itself is in Dutch but by clicking on the red underlined words "deze link" in the last lines of the text you can see the movie.

Cheers,
Dirk

Seats
 

The seats (driver, .30 gunner and loader) in our Staghound are completely gone. Only the front part of the seat in the turret is sort of still there. Does anyone have some tips and tricks on how to remanufacture the seats or are there seats used in other vehicles that can be converted in to Staghound seats?
Cheers,

Dirk

F 11 71 31
 

Hello,
Today we found the original F number on the rear of the Staghound.
It is F 11 71 31.
I hope this can help in the identification.

Cheers,
Dirk

Dirk

Here's a book I found recently - it will soon be going to a Staghound owner... but it could easily be scanned before it leaves me if you're interested... assuming of course there are no other copies kicking around with some of the Canadian nationals here. 288 pages.

Armament Training Pamphlet - Provisional - The Armoured Car M6 (T17E1) Staghound with 37mm Gun, 1957...

Attachment 97149

Let me know.

Tim

Hello Tim,
I am surely interested if it is not to much effort to scan it?
Kindest Regards,
Dirk

I certainly don't have a copy and it would be a pleasure to have a copy.