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-   -   CMPs from all over postwar (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21365)

mike mckinley 08-06-06 04:28

15cwt cmp wreckers??
 
hi all

can anyone advise if there was ever a version of the c15a or f15a as a wrecker, postwar? if there was such a beast, what wrecking gear did it use, holmes, garwood, other? pics would also be welcome.

thanks

mike

Bill Murray 17-01-08 18:04

Postwar Ford CMP
 
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I picked this off of the Chris Hodge old truck site.
Hopefully it has not been posted earlier.

Just wondered if David or someone else has any details. Was it a one off or some sort of series rego after the war??

Bill

cliff 17-01-08 20:40

Bill this has been on here before but not sure where. David had the info on them and they were post war rebuilds for the civilian market. :)

David_Hayward (RIP) 17-01-08 21:54

Reply
 
I posted this photo before on MLU, and the consensus was that it was a F15A I think though is that a Chevrolet front axle? The rego is Southend-on-Sea County Borough, possibly 1946. There was an ex-military vehicle dealer: Blowers & Coleman,12 Co-operative Goods Yard, Halstead, Essex, that sold ex-CMPs, Chev and Ford, and registered them we know in Essex County Council. They may also have registered vehicles in Southend or it could be another dealer.

Fords were rebuilt and sold on by a number of companies but Chevrolets were handled slghtly differently as General Motors Ltd acquired thousands for rebuild and resale, as did Pearsons of Liverpool, though some companies sold both!

PS:

I think that this photo has been posted three times now: here is one I found:
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...light=southend

Note the wartime right headlamp!

Bill Murray 17-01-08 22:44

Thank you both for your responses.

Sorry for the now "triple post". I missed the other two and was browsing Chris' site this AM. Thought it a very handsome conversion/rebuild.

Bill

David_Hayward (RIP) 17-01-08 22:59

Photo
 
Bill, you may not be able to search to check if it has been used. David Riley, ex-Major, British Army, would love to sell you a print or e-copy if you would like one.

cletrac (RIP) 17-01-08 23:33

Chev front axle
 
That Chevy front axle doesn't mean much when it comes to the early cab 11s. Ford used them too. When they rebuilt the trucks you'd wonder why they didn't install the cab vents.
The front spring mount casting on the back axle looks like it's Ford.

David_Hayward (RIP) 18-01-08 09:13

Axles
 
Note that they have done as so many rebuilders did, post-war, changed the wheels and fitted twins at the rear. I gather that the photo is in fact captioned as a Ford on the glass plate's packet.

Bill Murray 18-01-08 14:32

Yes, David, and that was what caught my attention, the dual rears.

I would also say this is an extremely tidy rebuild based on a lot of others I have seen over the years.

The fitting of the headlamps and fairing over the original locations, the tidying up of the bonnet, the new rear mudguards, the protection over the fuel tank etc. etc. Also the new body is very nicely done.

A question, though if I may. Such a vehicle, especially with the dual rears must have been a very thirsty beast and given the lack of petrol at the time did many find themselves being used in regular commercial service??

I would tend to think most of them must have ended up in Municipal Services such as Fire Brigades or National Service such as the Forestry Department or some such.

Any thoughts??
Bill

David_Hayward (RIP) 18-01-08 14:55

Post-war
 
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You are probably right about being thirsty but in a nutshell for several years after the war, there were no new trucks available. That is why until 1951 GM Ltd say were able to offer refurb'd trucks at 25% less than a new price.

This # 13 cab appears to have been use in the late Fifties, even though new vehicles were available.

David_Hayward (RIP) 18-01-08 14:57

Another shot
 
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Another shot... W C French were civil engineers. It looks as though the company had extensive workshops, as did many at the time, that could and did produce anything required...I am gobsmacked at the photos in the collection of Fifties workshops and the level of expertise, with full engine-outs/rebuilds to chassis repairs and new bodywork. I would imagine that cannibalisation was rife at the time, and any wrecked truck was recycled to keep others going.

This is a limestone spreader...note the truck in the background, which pumped the powder into the CMP which then did the spreading.

Alex van de Wetering 18-01-08 15:15

That late fifties Cab 13 does look a little odd with the new engine (?), round fuel tanks and why would it have a new roof and windshield? It's hard to see, but it also looks like the cab floor is sightly wider than the cab itself. Could it be a former Bofors CMP?

Also there seems to be some sort of frame extension at the front end.

Alex

David_Hayward (RIP) 18-01-08 15:26

Speading!
 
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Not a smoke screen!

Richard Farrant 18-01-08 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex van de Wetering
That late fifties Cab 13 does look a little odd with the new engine (?), round fuel tanks and why would it have a new roof and windshield? It's hard to see, but it also looks like the cab floor is sightly wider than the cab itself. Could it be a former Bofors CMP?

Also there seems to be some sort of frame extension at the front end.


I would lay money on it being re-engined with a Perkins P6, a 6 cyl. diesel, hence the longer nose.

If you look closely, there is the Perkins badge on the grille ;)

Bill Murray 18-01-08 23:56

Hi David and all:

An interesting sidebar subject perhaps.

And...I suspect David knows a lot more about it than I do, his being a Registered GM Historian.

In my archives, buried now in the cellar, I remember reading stories from contemporary Industry magazines etc. published here in the US during the period 1944 to 1946 wherein the manufacturers, then many more than today, were lobbying very hard to prevent surplus military vehicles being repatriated to the US.

As I recall the articles, the following were more or less their arguments.

1. A tremendous amount of plant expansion had taken place 1941-1944 to build the "Arsenal of Democracy" These plants would lie idle if all of those hundreds of thousands of vehicles were brought home and sold on the cheap.

2. At the same time, very few vehicles had been released to the civilian market in this huge land mass for more or less three years and their was tremendous pent up demand for both private and commercial vehicles.

In general, their arguments were accepted and with a few exceptions I will mention later, rather few vehicles were brought back to the US.
Most of the surplus you saw sold off in this country 1944-1947 were vehicles that never left the country and were cleaned out from bases where they were used for training or base support or just never got sent abroad.

3. One of their wishes, that all such leftover/surplus vehicles overseas be destroyed met with much less success, at least in Europe/The UK.

I think the concept here was that the US manufacturers felt there was a bonanza market in Europe for US made vehicles due to so much of the European vehicle production infrastructure being damaged or destroyed in the war.

In the end, this bonanza was never realized and the dominant position that the US manufacturers had prior to WWII was never realized again in the majority of the markets in Europe.

4. Rather the reverse was true in the Asia/Pacific theatre where the US sort of had a leading role.

I would have to dig to find them, but I have hundreds of photos of scrapping yards from all over the Pacific area where vehicles were just cut up or stored for some years stacked one upon the other.

As well, photo of vehicles being pushed off of Navy Carriers into the ocean and others of vehicles just being piled up and burned.

Kind of funny in that it did the US manufacturers absolutely no good as they never penetrated the Asian market the slightest bit and now the Japanese/Koreans and perhaps soon the Chinese just about own our own home market.

5. The exception that most stands out was that my beloved US Marine Corps "Dog Robbered" every single vehicle or whatever else they could scrounge and had it shipped back to the US on a Space Available basis at the end of the war.

A great deal of what they took to Korea in 1950 was not original USMC Issue, it was ex-US Army stuff with new serials.

Nothing to do with vehicles, but I lived several times on the Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton California in the late 1940s to the late 1950s.

The Marines had warehouses full of "stuff" there ranging from Juke Boxes to sports equipment, restaurant and bar fixtures, just name it.

As a 15-16 year old kid, my mates and I used to break into these unguarded warehouses just too look around.

At some point in time, I guess most of it just got destroyed but I can also say that most of my military vehicle manuals came from those same sources. I didn't steal them, I got permission to enter the warehouses with a "responsible person" and was allowed to take what I wanted.

An interesting time to be sure.

Bill

Keith Webb 19-01-08 00:29

Dig!
 
Quote:

I would have to dig to find them, but I have hundreds of photos of scrapping yards from all over the Pacific area where vehicles were just cut up or stored for some years stacked one upon the other.

As well, photo of vehicles being pushed off of Navy Carriers into the ocean and others of vehicles just being piled up and burned.


DIG!DIG!DIG!!! :thup:

Richard Farrant 19-01-08 00:58

Re: Another shot
 
Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward

This is a limestone spreader...note the truck in the background, which pumped the powder into the CMP which then did the spreading.

David,

To date this photo, I think it could be in the early 1960's, because the bulk tanker has an LAD cab, meaning it could be an Albion, Leyland or Dodge.

Also, looking closely at the grille of the CMP spreader, it could be the 4D badge used on post war Ford trucks, powered with the 4D 4 cyl diesel.

David_Hayward (RIP) 19-01-08 10:38

Date
 
I agree....the LAD would be 1962??? or later. Ford Industrial Engines in Brentford (Lincoln Cars building) used to sell diesel and petrol engines.

Vic Eaton 19-01-08 20:55

w c french
 
HELLO ALL OUT THERE
The picture of the cmp with wc french on the door brought back some memorys their trucks were always passing through our village of GREAT PARNDON in ESSEX sand and concrete blocks on very low trailors for a housing build called linford end which is still there today as i remember they were mainly ford canada my friends farther drove a dragline in a sand pit for loading them we used to stand in the back by the engine as it went back and forth imagine that today with all this health and safety it was great watching those old lorries wish i had taken some pictures the picture shown is the only one i have ever seen of a WC FRENCH truck never saw one like that though .only tippers.
regards vic uk.

Nick Balmer 19-01-08 21:27

Re: W C French
 
Hello,

W C French were a very well known Essex Civil Engineering firm, which was taken over by Kier, and was known as French Kier until about 15 years ago.

It was started before World War I, and I believe the original Mr French died in that war. For many years it was run by a Mrs French, who eventually handed it over to her sons.

They built a lot of East Anglian airfields during World War II.

These airfields were usually fitted with concrete taxiways and hardstandings, and French was probably issued with these batchers during the war.

Many wartime issued concrete batchers worked on into the 1970's. I worked for Fitzpatrick in the 1980's, and they had been a smaller competitor of French during WWII. They employed people who had worked with WWII batchers, that had been issued to them during the war, and which were used by them on into the 1960's, when they were used in building the M1 motorway out of London, from Scratchwood to Hemel Hempstead.

Many civil engineering companies were given trucks by the services to ensure that the airfields were completed on time.

There is a very large haulage company that still operates today, called P C Howard from King's Cliff near Peterborough that was founded during the war when the US Airforce was building Kings Cliff Airfield, local legend told to me by older construction labourers in the 1980's, has it, that Percy Howard (then a young man in his late teens or early twenties), bid for the muck shifting contract using two tractors and trailers.

The American's realised that he could not possibly complete the project on time, but they had no spare labour, so they issued him with trucks, which he kept on after the war.

The first foreman I worked with in the 1980's, Peter Newton drove these as a fourteen year old, when he was supposed to be in school.

His mum got a note from the Kings Cliff school mistress that he was absent from school.

She couldn't understand this because he was going off apparently to school everyday, so after checking this out, it was discovered that he was in fact nipping onto the airfield on his bicycle and driving trucks on Harringworth airfield.

His mum was furious and got up to the airfield only to find that the guards wouldn't let her in, and they wouldn't let her son out ether.

It later turned out, to be the day before parts of the Polish airborne flew out of Harringworth (also known as Spanhoe) into the Arnhem battle, and a security clampdown was in place, because paras had been briefed, but the flight had had to be delayed by the bad weather.

Peter Newton was uncelemoniously hauled back off to school the following day, by his irate mum.

It looks like that CMP was hauling water, which batching plants need in large quantities.

Regards

Nick Balmer

Nick Balmer 19-01-08 21:45

Trashing of Lend Lease equipment
 
Hello Bill,

You are correct about the post war agreements between US manufacturers, about not repatriating ex military trucks. It went much further than that however, and extended to things like beds, type writers and furnture.

I think there may have been arrangements in place to stop this equipment flooding onto the UK market.

After the war ended a great deal of ex American airforce equipment ended up on Harringworth airfield in Northamptonshire.

Farmers I knew who had owned the land before it became an airfield rented it after the war was over. They told stories of huge piles of beds, type writers, engines and trucks on the base. They could not get tractors or cars after the war, but these things were rusting away.

Eventually after some years, bulldozers were brought in and huge trenches were dug out, and the lot pushed in a buried.

These stories were current in the 1970's, when we used to learn to drive on the abandoned airfield perimeter tracks.

During the early 1980's the area was excavated to remove limestone and iron ore for the nearby steel works, and up came much of this old scrap.

The British had huge stocks of vehicles in the Suez Canal Zone, which were kept as a strategic reserve, to be used in the event of a Russian invasion of Europe. In the 1950's it was widely presumed that the Russians would reach the Channel in weeks, and any recovery of Europe would best be done by an allied landing in Turkey or Iran.

By 1955, it was clear we would have to leave Egypt, and most of these vehilces were disposed of.

A friend of mine who did his national service in the RE's spent many weeks loading trucks onto LCT's. The first thing to go on, was a Scammell Pioneer, with a big wooden baulk across its front bumper.

It would be reversed onto the LCT. All the other vehicles would then be dragged on, or driven on, if they would start.

They then sailed out a few miles into the Mediterrean, opened the ramp. The Scammell would be started up in a very low gear, and after a couple of minutes of spinning wheels and groaning and crunching, slowly but surely, the trucks would all be pushed off the front into the sea.

Regards

Nick Balmer

Vic Eaton 19-01-08 22:26

cmp
 
HI AGAIN
Thats interesting stuff about w c french i remember they were out of buckersthill north east london i think there was another firm called E A FRENCH but i didnt see them with cmps only the early bedfords another company that were often through our village using chevs this time was boyed gibbons they painted their trucks white cab and green body W C FRENCH were dark green and white diamond on the door ive often wondered what the low trailors were they towed they were about twenty feet long and about three feet high with a turntable draw bar thats what they were using to carry concrete blocks on .
vic uk.

Jan Mostek 08-06-08 18:32

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I know this thread was discussed quite some time ago but I guess you might be interested in the picture which i found by chance on the internet. It is one of the CMP truck with some gritt spreader body which David Hayward shown earlier, I only hope it is really new and I have not missed it somewhere in the depth of the threads ;)

Jan Mostek :salute:

David_Hayward (RIP) 08-06-08 18:46

Limestone spreader
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's another shot...diferent truck but similar body. And 4x4 for the farm fiellds!

Bill Murray 05-12-13 16:13

CMPs from all over postwar
 
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Just for grins, here two photos I picked off a Spanish site while doing research for another type of Forum.

Bill

Bill Murray 08-12-13 22:36

CMPs from all over postwar
 
5 Attachment(s)
Well, massive rain storms here tonight so no Christmas shopping.

These photos do nothing sitting in my documents files so might as well put them up here.

Bill

Robert Bergeron 08-12-13 22:42

CMP'S all over the world
 
Great pictures, thanks.

:thup:


Robert

Bill Murray 08-12-13 23:19

4 Attachment(s)
Merci Robert:

A couple more..........

Bill

RHClarke 09-12-13 14:14

Spanish HUP
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Murray (Post 189049)
A couple more...Bill

Bill, I am interested in the HUP photo in particular, do you have any background info about this photo? Thanks.

Hanno Spoelstra 09-12-13 14:37

Great to see you and these pictures on here, Bill!

I have re-named your thread as "CMPs in Spain Post WWII" did not cover the subject anymore. Also, I have cross-posted a few to Dutch CMPs.

Hanno


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