Yes, on that particular photo it appears that there might be a dent on the left side of the fourth digit, but none on its right, which would exclude the digit being a 3, and suggest a 9 or a 0. However, the dent on the left side is not visible on the first photo in my post #15 above:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=15
where the left side looks continuous, and not really apparent on the second, so my bet is still on a 0.

As for the dark colour of the digits, I think it's just the white paint ageing. The 'T' and first digit are still whitish, while the remaining digits have already turned dark. See also the white outline of turret #20 in post #2: part of it has turned dark.

Michel

For the left side of the fourth digit see also this photo:


Attachment 114540

Um … you’ve lost me there :) A dent on the left side I would consider a good indicator of it possibly being a 3.

Edit: Wait, you mean there’s no small indentation on the right. Sorry, brain not working too well today :( But if the paint has flaked off, then a lack of an indentation on either side doesn’t mean anything: if it also took a bit of the underlying paint off, you can get a smooth outline when first there was an indentation.

I find it very hard to tell in that photo. The number is more a smear than anything resembling a digit, especially on the right-hand side.

Interestingly, the name also doesn’t seem to be visible at all in that photo.

Here’s another picture, with all the white gone:

Attachment 114541

I still see an indent on the left side that I’d say likely points to a 3 or perhaps an 8.

Is this a phenomenon I’ve never heard of before? White paint turning yellow, yes, but that’s usually indoors when the paint isn’t in direct sunlight. That wouldn’t be the case here, but is there something about WWII-era paints that turns white paint dark after exposure to the elements, then?

Again, I find it very hard to see much of the number in that. I can recognise the 4 and the 2 somewhat, but everything else is mostly blobs :( Trying to make it more readable in Photoshop doesn’t work overly well (not helped by rather high JPEG compression) but after playing with colours and sharpness, I’m inclined to agree that it’s indeed more likely a 0 (or perhaps a 6) than a 3.

Hello all, this is a amazing thread and it is always great to see the efforts put into figuring out what happened back in the day and where vehicles ended up. I will throw out a crazy suggestion that you guys should run an advertisement in local to the area newspapers seeking any pictures, no matter how mundane, of the period. Somewhere, someone has old pics or a treasure trove album of pics just begging to see the light of day (on MLU).

OK, I'll try and make myself more limpid:

1. Right side of the 4th digit: on this photo, the line is a perfect arc of oval, with the edges of the line slightly darker, just like when one uses a brush the paint is a bit thicker at the edges of the brush stroke. This means the digit is either a '0' or a '9', a '0' being more probable since a '9' would usually have a wider top:
Attachment 114542

2. Left side of the digit: even though the images are not sharp, they seem to show that the left side is continuous over the lower 2/3 of the left line, thus excluding a '9':
Attachment 114543
Attachment 114544

Consequently, there only remains the possibility of a '0'.

Michel

Good, sound reasoning Michel !
I can't see that anyone can argue with that.

David

I already agreed with you :) What I did was take the photo you posted with the crew on the tank, cut out the relevant bit (to avoid distraction), zoomed in and out, played with the colour curves and then with sharpness. This results in variations on:

Attachment 114553Attachment 114554Attachment 114555Attachment 114556

Though the photo is unclear and the JPEG artifacts (the squares that appear in all but the first photo) make it even more so, it does look to me like the fourth number is a 0, yes.

It’s a very good idea, but I somehow doubt it … We’re talking about what at the time (before mass tourism) was a fairly poor village with a fairly strong Calvinist mindset (though not as much as some other villages nearby) — not a place where many people had photo cameras.

Most pictures of Westkapelle from this era come from one person, Neeltje Flipse-Roelse (at the time without the “Flipse”), who had taken up photography after being given a camera for her birthday as a teenager. She died in 2008, but her entire collection is now in the possession of the village museum. I would love to go through it sometime, because even though a lot of it has been digitised by the museum, I suspect a lot hasn’t.

Other photos of Westkapelle tend to be by visitors from elsewhere, as far as I can tell. I’ve found some in odd places where I’d never expected them, like the photo collection of the Frisian resistance museum — Friesland being on the other side of the country. Not a very great distance by, say, North American standards, but HUGE in 1940s Dutch terms. But it turns out someone from there came over here for a visit to the devastated Walcheren and took a good number of photos. These, for example, which includes a photo of Cock o’the North and Wolf of Badenoch and the only one of a Terrapin at Westkapelle that I’ve ever seen (though you’ll have to look hard to spot it :)). Note, though, that the good people in Friesland seem to have trouble distinguishing between Westkapelle in the Netherlands and Westkapelle in Belgium, and also between the province of Zeeland and the village of Zeeland in the province of North Brabant :confused: At least they’re not confusing it with Michigan or North Dakota :)

Armoured dozers serial numbers
 

There were reportedly 138 D7A and 45 D6A armoured angle dozers built. They were numbered 1T1xxx and 1T3xxx respectively. I have found evidence of the following extreme numbers:

D7A : 1T1007 & 1T1111, so the numbers presumably ran from 1T1001 to 1T1138

D6A : 1T3034 & 1T3060, which may mean that the actual total number built was over 45, or that there were unarmoured dozers within the 1T3001-1T3060 range, and/or that the armoured series started after 1T3001...

I'd be very interested to see evidence of numbers outside the above ranges :)

In addition to this manufacturer's serial number, armoured dozers also sported the War Department Registration Number, apparently nearly all starting with E243xxx (I only know of one clip showing a D7A E244xxx).

Michel

FWIW, I make the WD number of one of the dozers at Westkapelle, E234?85, with an unreadable fourth digit. This for the only one I’ve seen in a photo with this number visible at all, the one Hanno labelled “D”, and which I call E32:

Attachment 114569

D6A armored dozer
 

Dear Hanno,

Wim de Braal, which recovered in 1946 the two D6A armored dozers was my grandfather.
We bought this week with my brother a D6A with serial nr. 1T3038 :)
Requested information, regarding serial nr. to CAT visitors center in the US. And waiting.
Wondering if you could give us more info?

Best regards,
Willem de Braal

That's exciting Willem! Does the dozer still have the armour?

I believe Jack Olding & co in the UK built the dozers under licence, and also did the (British) armoured conversion, but hopefully Caterpillar will be able to help you with more info.

:thup2:Congratulations on your acquisition Willem :thup2:! I hope you will post an exhaustive photo walkaround soon!

Do you have any photo or information on your grandfather's recovered pair of D6As? Serial numbers or else?

I have nothing on 1T3038, only a photo of its immediate predecessor 1T3037 here: Armoured Bulldozers on D Day

Michel

Alex,
Jack Olding only did the armoured conversion. The tractors themselves were licence built in the USA but I don't know who by. I was told about 15 years ago that Caterpillar at that time denied the existence of the 1T series as 'nothing to do with us' but that might just have been one particular employee's ignorance. The tractors were shipped to the UK as complete standard tractors and the conversion is very much a matter of adding a big armoured box so of course it was equally easy to remove it, replace the missing sheet metal parts and you have a standard tractor again.
The Dozer kit was supplied by LaPlant Chote who were major manufacturers of hydraulic dozer conversion kits in the US at that time, when tractor manufacturers only built bare tractors.
Jack Olding also did many upgrades to Ram tanks and other armoured vehicles but never built complete vehicles from scratch.

David

Let me add this here:

http://www.bouwmachinesvantoen-archi...de%20Braal.htm

so everyone can see exactly what you mean by “recovered” :) I strongly suspect the one shown being dug up there is the one I posted a picture of earlier, standing in fairly deep water, and the second to be the one whose armoured cab was removed and left behind on the beach.

(Also note the wagon with the Sherman wheels.)

David, thanks for the correction and additional info.

That's pretty much the same reply I got at Chubbs in Wolverhampton, when I asked them about the Conger carrier conversion years ago! The hard part with these large firms usually is to reach someone that is actually willing to go to th archive and/or is interested in the history.

Judging from the pictures in Jakko's link, the armoured dozers did get a custom tank to clear the armoured body.

Alex,
Quite right about the custom diesel tank. Sorry to confuse matters but I was seeing that as a 'sheet metal part' that was easy to change. I should have been clearer.

Jakko,
Thank you for the link to the archive. Those are great photos. The photos show that they removed the engine from the dozer that they dug up, presumably to reduce weight. it would have had to be removed anyway for rebuild.

Willem,
Would it be possible for you to post a couple of photos of Cat 1T3038 as it is now please ? Does it still have the dozer kit with the frame between the tracks. If so I would be very interested to see how that is attached to the tractor.

David

Looking at the photos again, I have realized that, at least on the D6 conversion, the driver's position was raised by at least 30cm. presumably to provide a better view for the driver. I don't think that these armoured dozers were wadeproofed to any great depth, hence the drowned ones ! In the archive there is at least one photo of one with a home built cab that clearly has its floor much higher than a standard tractor.

David

I found them more or less by chance — on another site, I came across a few of those photos of a bulldozer being dug out, and the captions there mentioned the company name. I then Googled that and found this site.

That’s what I was thinking too. All that sand can’t have been conducive to the engine working :) I suspect the bulldozer was simply left where it stood and buried under the sand of the new sea dyke that was built. Parts of that were made using a suction dredger, which sprays a mixture of water and sand to where the sand is wanted, so it would not be a problem at all to bury a vehicle that happens to be in the way.

BTW, the reason I said that I think this is the one that stood in the water by itself is because of the houses visible in the photos of it being recovered. Though I haven’t tried matching them to any houses that still exist (maybe I should give that a try …), my knowledge of the lay of the land leads me to suspect it must be close to where the photo shows the drowned bulldozer with ruins on the right-hand side of the picture.

Hi Michel and all of you,

Thanks for the congrats! Where very pleased with the dozer ofcourse.
As we're very sure it's a "brother" or even one of the 4 (?). Landed at Westkapelle.
Found it on Tuesday, and arrived yesterday evening.
We are intending to restore it back to original shape, including armore :)
We"ll keep you updated, also with the answer of Caterpillar :confused

BR, Willem

There were at least three D6As and two D7As there, plus a few more that I’ve never seen photographs of that were taken from up close enough to identify them.

I've just found one which was hiding in my hard drive: 1T3008 E243x63 RAT RUFF:

Attachment 115213
Source: IWM A70 124-4 around 00:44

Michel

Walcheren 44-45.mp4
 

Some more footage of the wrecks after the war, not sure if this link was posted on here before. "Walcheren 44-45.mp4" is a hidden file on Youtube so worth boookmarking:

https://youtu.be/uVRD0GK_THs?t=119

Attachment 115625

Bloody hell! I wish I had seen that earlier :)

Let me provide some commentary … (Side note: please refer to my e-book on the wrecks at Westkapelle, it will clue you in to what’s what as well :) I shall be using the ID codes from that to refer to vehicles.)

Up to about 0:30: No sure which gun that is, but clearly anti-aircraft.

0:27: this is the remains of the antitank wall on the landward side of the Westkapelle sea dyke; the semi-submerged bunker in the distance is the Regelbau 621 that was on the dyke the RAF bombed.

0:36–1:00: the buildings interspersed with the gunfire are probably in Vlissingen.

1:01–1:04: the round tower is the Gevangentoren (“Prison Tower”) in Vlissingen, that’s still there today on Boulevard De Ruyter; it’s a restaurant nowadays.

1:05: the large angular building is the Bomvrije kazerne (“Bombproof barracks”) that dated back to the 19th century, and were used by the Germans in WWII; it was demolished after the war.

1:10: the cranes in the distance are of the De Schelde shipyard. The ship visible between them is hull number 214, the later MS Willem Ruys (that ended its life as the MS Achille Lauro)

1:16–1:29: this is Hotel Britannia on Boulevard Bankert in Vlissingen, which was destroyed in the fighting in November 1944.

1:45: Coosje Buskenstraat, which leads off the boulevards down into the town. There was very heavy fighting in this area.

1:48: this looks to be on the eastern or southern side of Vlissingen harbour, but I can’t place it right away.

2:00: Westkapelle beach. These are not derelict LCTs but ones used to bring in supplies for the reconstruction.

2:07: D6A S55, closer-up than I’ve ever seen a picture of it.

2:09: AVRE S32.

2:13: AVRE S42, in the distance Crab S31.

2:18: Foreground Crab S52, background Crab “Rhoderick Dhu” S51.

2:22: D7A S33.

2:25–2:40: Westkapelle, filmed from the top of the dyke to the west of the village.

2:52: The windmill is De Noorman (“The Norseman”), the only operative one remaining after the war. In the background is obviously the lighthouse.

2:56–3:07: This looks like the gap in the dyke at Westkapelle, filmed from the south but I’m not 100% sure.

3:08–3:18: Clearly the gap at Westkapelle, filmed from the north. The crooked bunker is again the Regelbau 621.

3:16: D6A S55. At the very top of the picture is the German radar station on top of the dune now called Erika.

3:20: Not sure where this is, but it could be the gap in the dyke at Ritthem.

3:38: This looks like the gap at De Nolle to the west of Vlissingen.

3:49: Somewhere in the interior of Walcheren, hard to say where.

3:55: Middelburg, to be precise the gazebo in the garden of an 18th century town house just off the Seissingel; the gazebo overhangs the Domburgse Watergang (a minor canal to Domburg); the camera is moving along what is now a bicycle track on the south bank of that canal. (I went to school about 300 metres northwest of here in the late 80s and early 90s :) We used to take that bicycle track to go into town when we had an hour off.)

4:13 on: I suppose these buildings are in Middelburg as well, but don’t ask me where.

Does this help?

Attachment 116307

I got this from Christiaan de Braal yesterday (posted here with his permission), but I have no idea what document it’s actually from.

Nice Table!

However there must have been additional D6A's built since this one is clearly 1T3060:
Attachment 116364

Michel

You should see his bulldozers :) (I went to visit him today to see his D6 1T3038 shown earlier in this thread. Turns out he has another, but with wide tracks, but I forgot to look at its serial number.)

Indeed. These bulldozers are just getting murkier at every step …

Great news: the Sherman Crab at Westkapelle will be restored!

Yesterday a Dutch newspaper published an article stating the municipality corroborates the historic importance of this genuine battle relic and it needs to be saved from further deterioration. It will make a plan with two local museums for the restoration of the Sherman. A great example of local collectors and historical associations collaborating with government officials.

Read https://www.pzc.nl/walcheren/de-tank...ered~a726d1bc/ (in Dutch)

Attachment 116496

There is a little snag, though, which the article doesn’t mention: the estimated restoration costs are rather more than the amount the municipal government has freed for it. From what I was told in a phonecall yesterday, the people doing the restoration will make a start with that and meanwhile, see how to get the rest together.