41 ford 3 ton 4x4
 

hello all. my name is leo and i'm from Connecticut in the USA i'm a new member to this form. have been following it for some time and has been a great source of info. i have a 1941 ford 3 ton duel wheel, long wheel base truck (158") that i'm in the process of restoring and converting to a marmon herington four wheel drive. the original idea was to represent a captured (US) truck in use by the ww2 german army. my original inspiration came from the book 'ford at war' by reinhard frank pg 19 captured ford in russia. i noticed several recent posts that are about captured fords so now is as good of a time as any. i have spent many hours researching captured fords and marmon conversions and while it maybe tough to say for sure weather this truck existed i do know that it could have been ordered from ford the way i'm building it. i'm going to try to post some pictures of my resto. the first couple are from when it was on the road (about 8 years ago) and will post my in progress picts next. i know this for a different forum but i also have a UC mark 2 that i'm also working on and will post that where it belongs. i'm very happy to finally get to be on this forum.

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Hi!
Respect to your restoration efforts and good luck in continuation and new projects!

As for prototype, frankly speaking, I can't imagine how 1941 trucks could appear in Axis service in visible numbers, especially with Marmon-Herrington conversion.

Most similar versions per my understanding are:
1. Dutch 1940 Fords with following changes
- it should be 1940 Front-ornament on the hood instead of 1941
- headlight stands from 1938/39 models (without lamp)
- additional wing lights similar to harley Knucklehead (optional)
- Nederlandsche-Ford emblem (optional)
Also i'd note that
- typical German gaparite pins are very rare on such trucks, however notek light was addded sometimes.
- Left mirror is untypical (acualy i never seen that)

2. US 1940 trucks shipped to Finland in large quantities
- it should be 1940 Front-ornament on the hood instead of 1941
- Typically, cargo bed has low sides and another canvas
- Again, there are no left mirror.
- No gabarite pins

Also, such type of canister mounting is typical to German-originated Fords only.

Welcome to the Forum.
 

I understand you already have the OD green sickness havcing been victim of a UC.

Interesting project you have in mind.

Be guided by comments from others but always remember IT IS YOUR TRUCK and you van do what you want with it....... be it a museum piece or a fun machine that looks the part.

Pictures of what you are playing with would be nice as some of us can't read toooo good.

Are you considering transplanting and original Marmon-Herrington power train conversion under your Ford or just converting with readily available 4x4 parts which could be modern system or a circa 1940 from a CMP donor truck?

In any events good luck, do not be afraid to ask questions and do not forget to let us see plenty of Photos.

Cheers

thanks for the repiles. i figure the germans had captured at least 1 of everything at some point. i know i have seen a picture of what looked like a 1941 ford used by british forces in italy captioned "HQ truck in the mud near Rimini". as far as the 4 wheel set up it will be all original i have secured 2 marmon equiped trucks. one was a '41' with a single speed transfer case. and a '46' with a 2 speed and a compensating gear for the front axle. both were shortwheel base trucks 1.5 ton. i'm using the front axle from the '41' and the transfer case from the '46'. it's just a better case. my goal is to make it as close to 100% to 1941 ford as i can. i've already rebuilt the motor and gone thru the running gear, brakes, lines, etc. had to cut the chassie for the front drive shaft. mounted the crossmembers for the transfer case. i'm at the point that the rolling chassie is now a running and driving chassie. up next lot of pannel repair. i have loads of pictures.

Wow!!!!!!
 

You are well underway.......love the pictures.

Somewhat familiar with the 4x4 Ford system used on Canadian Mil. Pat. but can understand how the tranny/engine is held in the frame at the back of the engine.

The front of the engine is mounted on the familiar two engine pads....but what holds up the rear.....?

You were very fortunate to find M-H power train to do your conversion.

Have you ever attended the Weare rally and/or when will we see your truck in the flesh?

You have a very unique vehicle.

Don't be stingy with the pictures.

Bob C

ivan are the gaparite pins the width markers on the front bumper? as far as the mirror goes i have noticed that most trucks do only have one mirror but where i live people drive like a-holes and found it unavoidable. it also helps when i tow my PAK 38. but that's another thread. but maybe i can make it removable for shows.

Hi Leo!
Yes, I mean width markers on the front bumper.
Sorry, i don't know proper term.
There are several types of such markers on german Fords (some kind of evolution) and sometimes they were added to captured trucks. But not so often on 1940 Fords.

Yes, sure :-) I can't imagine how to drive without right mirror...
It was just a comment from scale modeller

Bob, the gearbox mount is hidden by the short propshaft, down onto the two holes in the black cross member.

The rear adapter on the transmission has two feet that go down to the crossmember and have two motor mounts like the front of the engine.

The basic Ford transmission case is adaptable to many of the Ford models by changing that rear adapter, or in the case of the carrier, you have to add an extra hole in the case to accept the carrier (round) adapter.

for interest's sake...
 

The rear gearbox mount Lynn describes is similar to that used in LP2 and LP2A carriers. (There are different mounting heights though)
Rob

neighbour
 

My 93 year old German neighbour was a driver in the artillery , he was captured in Italy . He told me he did his army driving license test in a 4X4 Opel truck . He showed me a interesting book he has, published in Germany during the war, the book details the technical specifications of British armour eg tanks , it is printed in the old Gothic German script, I would love to get a loan of it . Mike

Rob L., I think the mount is a one piece rubber mount that is probably captive in the cross member and held there with another plate on the bottom (I'm not sure about this particular set up) There are two steel bosses moulded into the rubber that stick up through the holes. The cast bracket bolts to these. The park brake anchor and speedo drive boss are part of the mount and can be easily seen.
I have one of those rubber mounts. It is a standard commercial Ford part, that used in conjunction with a std commercial cast mount, bolted to the back of the box at the holes you speak of. The LP2/ LP2A carriers used a longer rubber mount and a taller cast mount, both of which are Ford parts, special to the Australian pattern carriers.

Leo, I like your clever way of having only the front of the truck in your shed.

you are correct on the trany mount see pict. the truck uses standard ford truck parts with the exception of cutting the trany crossmember to allow for the front drive shaft to have clearance.. as for the garage it is a bit short to fit the whole truck in but it does allow me to work on it with some heat in the winter. i'm hoping to have the truck done for next october to make it's first show at the colling's foundation. once i'm done i try to make as many shows as i can. i have the means to tow it where ever i need to bring it. a few shots of the frame. it runs and drives quite well. the color on the rims is what the body color will be.

Nice Work
 

Keep the updates and photos coming!
H

Bob, more than "somewhat familiar", it was downright copied - see link:
And read my webpage here: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/marmonherrington/

Thanks Hanno
 

Strange how the CMP evolved.

it's been awhile since i've posted. but things are back on track. i've made a lot of progress on the truck and will put some new picts up. been thinking about getting a 1940 hood for the truck but haven't found one for a reasonable price. wasn't sure if i should keep posting picts of the restoration here or start a new thread under restoration thread. i'll let the fourm moderators decide that.

Mh
 

Most of the MH Fords where this model, a few where RH drive with roof hatch's, also there where earlier models with fender mounted head lights but they seemed to be 2 ton models and mostly aircraft refueling trucks.

Ford MH
 

These MH had the low sides wood decks with an add on side extension for higher sides.

it's funny that you posted these pictures. both of my doner trucks were of this body style (left hand drive). was never a big fan of this body style around here it's a popular hot rod pick up truck body. this site (MLU) is loaded with images of 40-41 fords these are some of the pictures that i've been looking at for some ideas.

this one is a german (european) built with the one piece windshield but other wise a 40-41 ford body. although the more i look at this picture it appears to printed in reverse. fill neck for the gas tank is on the wrong side or am i completely off and this is not a ford?

Hi Leo,
I see what you mean. So let's try it:

http://s33.postimg.org/ei4qg8jfz/ford_dak.jpg

I'm ready to agree the swastika on the flag was reversed, it happened sometimes. Let's suppose also the cab isn't German/European but the openable windshield was lost. Now the truck looks almost CF60L MCP. Almost, because now there is another problem: in this version of the picture it turned to LHD! :doh:

I like that trick. Lhd should mean German/European cab.

Hi Leo. Your picture of the truck in the mud near Rimini, is a Kiwi one, from the NZ Ammunition Company NZASC (69 0n red/green square).

Cheers,
Pete M.

Exactly here is the problem: I'm not aware of any German Ford and, in that matter, of any German wartime truck, with split rim wheels. :(

it's been awhile since i've been able to post any updates. i'm pretty much done with the truck. runs and drives quite well on the road and seems to perform great off road as well. like any project there's still some stuff to finish. but i'm a happy camper. i'll have more picts to post soon.

Hi; I have an Original '40 Ford 01T here in Oregon 2 wheel drive medium WB stake bed. The Early Ford V8 Club trk books show '39 and '40's in North Africa with the Commonweath troops. A restored '40 showed up at the MVPA convention this Summer. My photo will nto load? Newc

welcome aboard. as far as the pictures go i find that i have to resize them to be able to post them. is your truck currently restored or is in the works? this a great site for info on war time fords. and they treat us guys with a slightly different shade of tan paint really well.

here's some from this past years Collings foundation. if you go to you tube and look for "battle for the air field 2016" you can see some footage of the truck in 'action'. if you do go note that i'm actually driving the Hetzer and one of my friends is driving the truck. lol. the first pict is of the truck and a PAK 184r (captured russian anti tank gun 45mm), parked next to the flak 36 88mm and last looking thru the driver periscope of the Hetzer at the 41. it's weird watching someone else drive your truck.

41 Ford
 

HI Leo your truck looks very good, do you have any interior pictures you can share with us.