Identification Required
 

I stumbled on this web site by accident which features an unidentified Armoured Car discovered in Malaya.

If the link works can any one identify it.

www.geocities.com/malaya_hg/austin_kajang.htm

Nearest I can find is the Morris CS9, built on a 4x2 truck chassis. This had a small turret at the rear and a canvas covered section in front of that - trouble is I can't find any record of use outside the North African campaign. It may explain the Austin (Nuffield) engine though.

Here is the source of info on the Morris, about half-way down the pagehttp://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/equiparmourarmouredcars.htm

Link
 

Dave, the link did not work as there is an erroneous tilda. Try:

http://www.ian.a.paterson.btinternet...mouredcars.htm


I confess that I had not known about the CS9 before!

Here's a side view of a captured CS9 in N Africa
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/I...-UnknownAC.jpg

what about
 

the top of a Humber light recce car? I dont know anything about Austin engines, but the top hull might just be it...
http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks...er/mk3ligh.htm
BTW these were sent to the Far East in 41/42, some ending up on Java after the fall of Singapore...
Kind regards,
Nuyt
Overvalwagens!

Re: Identification Required
 

Re: Identification Required
 

Couldn't it be some sort of Japanese tankette?

The size of the turret and the side port would seem to rule out any of the known British, French (Panhard) or Japanese ACs known to be have been used in Malaya. However three points
1 Although the web page you provide now comes up as unavailable I have managed to pick up a very small picture linked to it that appears to be another picture of the same vehicle but from the side. Detail is very poor but it does seem to have a bonnet not shown on the view from the back and above shown in this thread.
2. During the Emergency in the 1950s a number of the larger tea estates maintained their own armoured cars for running supplies up to the highlands from the towns. These were built by their own workshops. The BOH company had just such a vehicle complete with turret probably built on the chassis of an estate lorry (an Austin?). This might be an explanation
3 A bit of a long shot but armoured rail cars were als used during the emergency. The body in the photo has a sort of rail car shape (but it certainly isn't the Wickham that was one of the main types used,. However once again some vehicles were converted in country
Soory this reply is a bit late but I'vr only just registered with MLU

Here are the other two pictures:

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/762/austin1.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/762/austin2.jpg

Are they of any help to identify it? It does not seem to have a bonnet; could it have been an armoured hull fitted to an Austin car (I think it is too small for a truck), only covering the vehicle from the cowl rearwards?
Any further views are welcome.

H.

Having the man in the picture does give a much better idea of the scale and certainly rules out a great many possibilities. The turret can’t have been that big after all. I’ve been doing a lot of research on armoured cars recently (for a book I’m working on) and this very small vehicle doesn’t match anything I can think of let alone those known to have operated in Malaya.

Blowing up the picture x 4 one can see through the hatch where the hull has rusted away on the starboard side and the metal is very thin to start with. Also there is no internal division so that blows an idea I had that one of the two front hatches covered an engine compartment. My railcar theory goes out of the window too (despite this being about the right size and shape for an armoured draisine) as such a vehicle would have drivers position at both ends (unless it has been designed by a singularly inept railway engineer).

Given all this I would suggest that this was one of the improvised armoured vehicles used by the estates and rubber plantation companies during the emergency to protect their workers from communist insurgents. I think Hanno’s suggestion that was fitted onto a car chassis with the engine outside the shell (possibly protected by separate plates?) is the most likely. The complete vehicle would have looked rather like a Beaverbug.

Another detail
 

The welding looks stainless, common on welded hull armoured cars. Would a locally produced armoured car have had access, or even though of using, anything other than standard welding rod?

Stainless welding of armour plate
 

Bruce it was the only way they could weld the stuff at the time. That what the Brits did when they first moved from riveting carriers to welding them. Circa 1941. Thats what the "w" part of the designation of my Armoured Obsevation Post carrier stands for (welded) (with stainless electrodes)

re another detail
 

Many years ago I used to work for the Dunlop International Group who then had many very large rubber plantations out there. I used to speak with their management on a failrly regular basis. These guys had workshops that were very well equiped indeed and would have had the same level of self reliant capability in the 1950s. They had to build and maintain most of their own equipment and look after sizeable fleets of lorries. I don't think that a welded hull armoured car would be beyond their capabilities.

If I may open an old thread I recently borrowed a book on the Malaya Emergency published on Malaya so not widely internationally distributed, The Malayan Emergency Revisited 1948-1960: A Pictorial History by Muhammad Azzam bin Muhammad Hanif Ghows.

I looked at all the photos of armoured vehicles especially locally modified vehicles. How about something like this as a contender for the unknown hull that was dug up although it can't be this one was the buried hull appears to only have single forward opening.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4874/...2bd7fe40_z.jpgIMG_2945 by tankienz, on Flickr

One of the most interesting photos was a Fox armoured car which I have never seen as operated during the Malaya Emergency.

Paul Napier

we have to look at something from mid ww2 onwards , because of the welds , early machines where all riveted.

Have I had my black no see glasses on :bang: Is the vehicle above a Marmon-Herrington Mk 3 hull mounted on a new CMP chassis with some detail modifications?

Paul

Maurice, My Armoured O.P. Carrier was built in the Ford Dagenham factory. It rolled off the production line about October 1941. It was welded with Stainless rods. These welded hull carriers started being built in Sept. 41. My father said back then the rods had a paper wrap that held the flux. They ran high current and produced a fair bit of spatter.