Sherman / Grant Air cleaners ?
 

Hi Team, just wondering if these air cleaners are Sherman / Grant, etc, came off a Detroit 671 of the era, there are two different styles , these are available if anyone needs them ?, Cheers Andrew.

Andrew,

GM Diesel used a few different styles of oil-bath air cleaners, but those used for commercial engines with single or dual air-intakes generally have a protruding flange which interferes with their fit on the military triple air-intakes.

Attached are some images from a couple of GM 6046 manuals with the early (small) and later AC, and Donaldson types.

The last image is a GM 6046 engine which I believe is displayed in a French museum ( images was copied from the internet a couple of years ago, proper credit unknown). It shows the interference issue with a mix of military and commercial air cleaners on a triple air-intake.

Thanks Colin, so going by what you have produced , I probably have a couple of the air cleaners with the slotted holes for the M4A2 Sherman. On the Detroit engine , model 6004, that I have for the MK5 Valentine , this uses the ones in this current picture , cheers Andrew

Andrew,

I believe the air cleaners in your latest image (one round air inlet as opposed to an oblong inlet) are specifically for mid-to-late production Valentines. I can post some supporting images this evening.

Colin

Andrew,

I just re-read your last post, and think I may have initially misunderstood it.

I believe that the tall air cleaners shown in your first post are commercial versions due to the rim/flange which stands approx an inch proud of the vertical sides of the main body of the air cleaner. Due to the spacing of the intake holes on the military triple air-intakes, I believe there is insufficient room for these styles of air cleaners to fit side-by-side as the rims/flanges will prevent a proper fit.

I have not yet determined if the rim/flange can be removed, or if the internals are suitable to provide parts for the military versions.

I will provide more images this evening.

Colin

The slotted hole ones were pulled from a triple hole manifold on the blower, so they were sitting side by side with no problem, cheers Andrew.

Andrew,

Very interesting! I had not attempted to put this style on a triple air intake as the proud flange looked like it would cause a problem. Does this mean that the body is a smaller diameter? I have access to most, if not all, of the types under discussion and I intended to get to them this afternoon to take some comparison images, but my day did not go as planned (hopefully tomorrow).

Here are some images from 1947 and 1949 GM Diesel Industrial model parts books, and a 1957 Detroit Diesel parts book, showing various evolutions of air cleaners. I note that for both the AC and Donaldson types, the holes moved from the lower housing/shell in the wartime parts books to the upper element assembly in the post-war parts books (that I can access).

Andrew,

Here are a couple of images regarding the early, and later types of Valentine air cleaners. (I fully acknowledge that you have extensive experience with Valentines).

Thinking back , I may have pulled the slotted ones off a duel intake manifold
rather than a triple, so extra gap ? between them. So these look like they could be commercial of that era 1947 to 1949 , Thanks for the input.....nice Valentine
book that you have.......Cheers Andrew.

Andrew,

I managed to get some images of the various air cleaners and intake manifolds.

These three images are to illustrate the difference in the spacing of the holes in the double vs triple air-intakes.

In all three images the centre hole of the triple is aligned with the left hole of the double ( I didn’t have a tape measure handy)

Here are some images of two air cleaners which I believe are military for the GM 6046 twin diesels with triple air-intakes, and two which I believe are for Commercial/industrial GM diesels with single our double air intakes.

The ones with flanges pose a definite compatibility problem with the triple air-intakes.

My conclusions: The air-cleaners with flanges could be used with the GM 6046 engines if the flanges are removed and a set of six is available (the military manuals are very explicit that all air-cleaners on a unit must be of the same type).

Thanks for the pictures Colin, looks like you have been into the Detroit a little bit. Did you see my wanted post for the cast bracket for the model 6004 engine
Fan blade extension mount. Have you ever seen this model engine in Canada, as this would have been put in the Canadian Valentines , Cheers Andrew.

Andrew,

In the fall of 2018, there was the opportunity for the Base Borden Military Museum (BBMM) to acquire some parts for GM 6046 engines.

The first trip was quite an eye-opener where we encountered mountains of Detroit Diesel parts (some contained in partially collapsed buildings), and the challenge became the ability to identify the military-specific parts among the large quantities of other similar parts.

This resulted in acquiring and studying as many manuals as possible and studying the parts diagrams to hopefully enable quick visual identification of the military parts.

To add to the challenge, the site was being cleared, with many of the items that we didn’t claim going directly to scrap.

We made out well and saved a lot, but I have no doubt that we missed some rare and valuable parts.

Amongst the piles/crates/cages/shelves were some Valentine specific parts, so there was at least one 6004 engine that had been stripped there. We didn’t find any Fan Support Brackets.

There were 30 Canadian Valentines which stayed in Canada (of the 1420 produced, 1390 were shipped to Russia) and BBMM has the sole intact survivor of those 30 tanks. It still has it’s engine, but due to the condition of the vehicle, it would take many days of effort to get into the engine compartment for a thorough inspection. There is some potential that the engine has the aluminum flywheel housing with integral fan supports.

Excellent quality photo , I have not seen before of the parts exploded. Yes it is No 7 in the picture I am after, have all other parts, as we have just finished a rebuild of one of these engines for a MK5. Pretty sure all the bellhousings I have got have been cast Iron, but there could be one alloy one in the stillage that I did not use. I even have a NOS block 6004 , serial number 10001 in a crate! Looks like I will have to cast one up , as I can get hold of one for a pattern , so will cast a couple for use with this NOS block, that could be built in the future . One other part , did you ever save any generator cradles , as that is one part that could be worth picking up , as I have half a cradle for this NOS block project, Cheers Andrew.

Andrew,

We didn’t find any generator cradles.

The images have come from these manuals. The nice exploded view of the flywheel housing is from the 6062/6004 parts book.

Colin

Hi Colin, nice manuals, have not seen the 6004 special manual.....would be a good one to get, as we have done several of these engines now for the Valentine, Cheers Andrew.

After seeing this post I had a distant memory of obtaining the 6004 special manual and sure enough I found it could do you a copy if you want ?
Flicking through it I did not know the 6004 also has a triple oil pump like the 6046 but is chain driven (6046 is gear driven ).

Yes, the 6004 is chain driven, we have just finished installing one, and to get tension on the chain, there are shims under the mounting points. I think it is made up of two oil pumps and one scavenge pump. Do you have any spare new gears for them? , they are about 1&3/4" long, I think the shaft hole is 5/8" by memory. The Detroit dealers in the States are pretty hopeless on this old stuff, even getting gaskets has become a mission, they recon they are short of gasket paper for manufacturing in the US at the moment. If you come across a original manual , I would be interested in an original if you ever come across one, Cheers Andrew