MLU FORUM - CAPLAD: Car, Armoured, Personnel, LAD, Ambulance and Demolition

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CAPLAD: Car, Armoured, Personnel, LAD, Ambulance and Demolition

Note: these postings were split off from the thread Revised 1942 S/M Contracts Listing:

Hanno, I thought I might just add something that I had written on the CAPLAD, because there was of course another rear-engined design, if that is all right with you:

"The D.N.D. involvement with the CAPLAD was the subject of a D.N.D. file RG24 Volume 12292, 1/VEH ARMD GP/1 of 1943 ‘Policy and provision of lorry (armoured) 4 x 4 GP- CAPLAD’. The original prototype of the Car, Armoured, Personnel, Light Aid Detachment or ‘CAPLAD’ was based on a modified Ford W0T6 3-ton 4 x 4 chassis, which Dagenham called the W0T9. However, Dagenham realised that they could not develop and quantity build the design because of commitments . The CAPLAD seems to date back to the end of 1942, when a Brigadier Hedge visited N.C. Millman [formerly of GM of Canada pre-war by the way], by then Director of Automotive Design, A.E.D.B. and requested that two Fox 1 chassis should be sent to England to permit hull development for an all-purpose armoured car/lorry.

It would appear that the Ministry of Supply experimented with a body based on the Fox chassis though with the driver moved to the right side to enable his mate to sit on the left. G.M. of Canada must have produced the ‘British’ design, but were not happy with what was achieved and thus they spent considerable effort and time into producing a vehicle with the chassis omitted, but using Otter Reconnaissance Car components, and thus the 270 G.M.C. engine. However, the engine was rear-mounted in the manner of the Ford of Canada Model C298QR(F) following on from the C011QRF of 1940, then the C191QRF of 1941 which were built up with their own Armoured truck design. The roles envisaged were command, armoured lorry, personnel carrier, and light aid detachment service vehicle.

The Canadian design mounted chassis components directly onto the hull, and the pilot model was produced in 1944. However the designs of both bodies were too cramped for practical use and the idea was dropped.

There is no indication yet as to what the G.M. of Canada model number was unless it was 8447, the same as the Otter, for the Canadian vehicle and 8446 for the British. The British W.D. Census lists the following information for a rear-engined lorry, to Ministry of Supply S/M 2830, for six Chevrolet units and four Ford chassis:
W.D. L 4958024 to L 4958025 S/M 2830 ‘Lorry 3-ton 4 x 4 Rear Engine’
The Ford Model C291QR(F) chassis were allocated:
W.D. L 4958026 to L 4958029 S/M 2830 ‘Lorry 3-ton 4 x 4 Rear Engine’
These were bodied by Duple Bodies and Motors Limited including a command post vehicle".

The refernce to C291QR of course must be corrected...it was in fact a modified British W0T6 and so was correctly W0T9, although there must have been input from Windsor based on the C291QR.

Thus apart from the Rhino on the 8446 there was also the CAPLAD. Any more??

More information has come to light courtesy of Shane. I am posting an extract of RA documents. It is interesting to note what may have gone ahead with both the original Ford thebn Chevrolet versions. Note that the Ford version would have had the 94 bhp V-8, and I think from memory the Chevy had the GMC 270, but still not enough go?

Am I right to think...ok we have a design here, so what can we use it for?

A recent thread elsewhere (on FB) has prompted me to assemble available info on MLU into one thread.

Besides David Hayward's postings above, Bart Vanderveen wrote an article "The Anglo-Canadian Caplad" in Wheels & Tracks magazine Issue 63.

In short, the CAPLAD (Car, Armoured, Personnel, LAD, Ambulance and Demolition) was intended to replace the C15TA with a more capable vehicle though it never went beyond the prototype stage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP) (Post 1464)

It would appear that the Ministry of Supply experimented with a body based on the Fox chassis though with the driver moved to the right side to enable his mate to sit on the left. G.M. of Canada must have produced the ‘British’ design, but were not happy with what was achieved and thus they spent considerable effort and time into producing a vehicle with the chassis omitted, but using Otter Reconnaissance Car components, and thus the 270 G.M.C. engine. However, the engine was rear-mounted in the manner of the Ford of Canada Model C298QR(F) following on from the C011QRF of 1940, then the C191QRF of 1941 which were built up with their own Armoured truck design. The roles envisaged were command, armoured lorry, personnel carrier, and light aid detachment service vehicle.

The Canadian design mounted chassis components directly onto the hull, and the pilot model was produced in 1944.

The GM engineers came up with an entirely new approach, i.e. a vehicle with the frame omitted. All the drive line components were mounted directly to the all-welded armoured hull. The drawing for this was submitted in January 1943.

Note: I am not sure if this indeed was an entirely new approach, as the same design principle where applied to the South African Reconnaissance Car, Mark IV of which production started in 1943.

General Motors of Canada's prototype for a Caplad was of frameless construction:
Attachment 104690 Attachment 104691

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP) (Post 1464)

The Ford Model C291QR(F) chassis were allocated:
W.D. L 4958026 to L 4958029 S/M 2830 ‘Lorry 3-ton 4 x 4 Rear Engine’
These were bodied by Duple Bodies and Motors Limited including a command post vehicle". The refernce to C291QR of course must be corrected...it was in fact a modified British W0T6 and so was correctly W0T9, although there must have been input from Windsor based on the C291QR.

#1: This is the 1st prototype of the Canadian Ford-based British Caplad. It looked similar to the GM product but had a stepped front plate:
Attachment 104692

#2: The Command version had a queer-looking unarmoured (wood/canvas) rear upper structure:
Attachment 104694

#3: Late Command car prototype with a side door:
Attachment 104693 Attachment 104696

#4: The Duple-bodied Caplad from the rear. This variant also had a side door:
Attachment 104695

Photo of the Ford WOT-9 4x4-based protype as mentioned by David above. Photo courtesy of Craig Moore.

Attachment 133406