tracked vehicle question?
 

Hi group.

I hope this question hasn't already been beat to death.

What are the road rules for tracked vehicles in the different provinces?

IE: Can they be registered, insured and driven on the road.

Here in BC there are a couple of halftracks and Bren Gun Carriers that have specialty plate status meaning their use is restricted.

It's the general feeling though that here in BC ICBC may not allow any more tracked vehicles on the road.

Thank you

Dan Jahn

In Manitoba a tracked vehicle may not be registered for road use. That has been the rule for at least 30 years that I know of.

But it gets worse. ABout 8 years or so back, when I went to safety and register my M38A1Cdn3 Jeep, the provincial registrar was not even sure they wanted "that type" of vehicle on the road.

Tracked vehicles
 

Thank you Rob

Yes those of us with registered and insured tracked vehicles here in BC feel quite fortunate that we can use them.

I also had trouble many years ago trying to get collector plates for a M38A1 jeep.

The supervisor I had behind the counter thought along the same lines as the fellow you were dealing with.

Would like to hear from the other provinces on this subject.

Thank you

Dan

I will comment but wont delve too deep as this is a public forum.

In the province of Ontario the essential flavour is no, and that is a no period.

To go any deeper is fraught with landmines.

As far as registering weird vehicles, or weird as other civvies see them, I specialise in doing it, and do it often. I get the paperwork right and get every i dotted and every t crossed.

Both driving a vehicle and registering one is a privilege and not a right in this province, and don't ever forget it because those are the words used when they "revoke your privileges".

I have over the years sorted out many peoples vehicle registrations by doing all the leg work and jumping through hoops.

There are many people who work in the system who regrettably don't see as much of a variety as others and give the wrong info out to us hobbyists.

Being patient and executing a tactical withdrawal (not a retreat) and regrouping with the correct information is the key.

Oh yes, an SMV sign is not a loophole, it is a liability.

Do it right and do it proper and when things go pear shaped you will be in the clear.

I know, I have been there.

Robin

As Rob Love mentioned, here in Manitoba tracked vehicles are a " no no" unless it is a major construction vehicle 'helping to improve the local economy', in which case they turn a complete blind eye to it's presence on the roads and the damage done.

The law came into effect around World War One when roads were starting to improve and was initially geared to Agricultural Steam Engines with their huge cast steel wheels with heavy steel lugs. With the arrival of the tank in the war, a lot of attempts were made to convert farm equipment to tracks, but they still tore up the roads badly, so tracked vehicles were banned. This was the result of enough municipalities bitching up to the provincial government, who writes the rules via the Highway Traffic Act. Fast forward 30 years and a whole new family of vehicles arrive on the scene with fully rubber tracks (US Halftracks for example). You try to register one and the guy at the counter hears 'track' and automatically goes into rejection mode. And technically he is correct. The original law never differentiated steel versus rubber because there was no need to 100 years ago.

So what do you think the odds will be for the first Halftrack owner in Manitoba to get his vehicle registered? He's at the bottom of the latrine looking wayyy up at that shadowy government body looming overhead.

Actually David, Agricultural vehicles are exempt from registration and can operate on Manitoba roads and highways if they are performing agricultural functions. So if it was an attempt to restrict those vehicles, then it will have failed.

If the new halftrack owner is an ag-operator, then a few bales of hay in the back heading to a waiting customer should suffice. The vehicle will be insured under his farm insurance.

" ag-operator, then a few bales of hay in the back heading to a waiting customer should suffice. "

And as soon as an accident happens, the police and the insurance company see right through this and walk away laughing...and jack up your rates.

No sense trying to con anyone...carriers are not ATV's, not snowmobiles, not tractors, not anything but what they are.

f

Tracked vehicle
 

I talked with Insurance Corperation of B.C employee today and they have not heard of anything to disallow us to drive are Tracked Vehicles or to not allow the Registration of future Bren Carriers on road.
Possibly just fear mongering to drive up the price of Registered Tracked Vehicles
Regards
Jeff

I had a trucker in Alberta complaining about something I was going to tow home with my farm pickup. I pointed to the F on the license plate and said "See that? That means I can do any "f"ing thing I want!" He walked away in disgust.

Farmers
 

Farmers Rule

tracked vehicles here in BC
 

That's good to hear that the rumors about it getting harder or impossible to get tracked vehicles registered here in BC may be false. Speaking for myself I met a lot of resistance trying to get two halftrack projects registered and that was at the head office level. So I gave up. I know of another person ( no names ) that had a hard time just trying to transfer an already registered tracked vehicle. So it is good to hear that it may only be fear mongering.I guess we won't know for sure until someone gives it a try.

Thank you for everyone's input.


Dan

never tell them more than their poor little brains can handle , a Halftrack has 2 drive axles , sounds like a White truck to me, my 2 cents, and Hagerty insures them but make sure you speak only to Hagerty,

Several provinces (I believe BC, Sakatchewan, Manitoba and Quebec) have mandatory provincially run insurance plans that vehicle owners are required to deal with for basic liability coverage. In these provinces, you only get to chose the provider for optional coverages such as fire/theft/collision. In these provinces, it can be hard to get round the combination of registrar and (basic) insurer combined into govenment staff. As stated above, there seem to be conflicting opinions expressed by different staff and conflicting experience with different offices of the same agencies.
"Restored historic vehicle" has a very diiferent ring to it than "old tank" so a great deal may depend on the sympathy/interest/knowledge level of the person you are dealing with and their reaction to your approach.
If you have knowledge of the text of the acts and regulations, you may be able to lead them to accept your position by being able to show the text that permits them to do what you are asking for. Regulations can be written and interpreted as permitting, restricting or prohibiting activities. Hopefully the "historic vehicle" owners can find clauses in the regulations that permit their intended use rather than meeting staff who quote clauses prohibiting the activity.

I have been through the registration and insurance thing more times than I care to remember. In Ontario, you can get a registration for almost anything you want, it's getting it plated and insured that is the difficult thing. As soon as an insurance company knows it's an armoured vehicle, they will not touch it, Hagerty included. If you only give them a little bit of information to get it through the insuring process, it's like Charlie says, be prepared to lose your house and all your worldly possessions in the lawsuit that follows if you are ever involved in an accident.

Perry

Perry, hagerty does insure armor, and yes I have sent them many pictures of my halftrack for them to appraise it, so there is no discrepancies in what it is. They happily insured it, and also told me they have more than a few of them insured in the US. I should also note, dont even bother with the a@@hats at Lant insurance who sell hagerty policies, they said no right off, deal directly with hagerty, thats what i did

Andy

Give us a name of the agent, then - I'm interested in liability more that replacement, but....

Here's an interesting quote from their page..

" Vehicles must be 1985 or older
Vehicles must be properly garaged
No off road usage
No battle reenactments
Vehicles must be de-militarized (armaments removed or disabled)"

f

more on insurance here in BC
 

Hi again

Here in BC when you apply for special plate status you are required to send in pictures of the vehicle with the application so the tracks will sort of be obvious. A fellow now working for Hagerty used to be here in BC with ICBC and was very good for the military vehicle collectors.

Dan

There is no agent name on my paper work, broker is
Hagerty Canada- 800 922 4050. They are in the same building as Lant, but they are a floor above i believe suite 409.

You are correct, they do not insure for anything other than road. All guns MUST be deact to legal standards also, no live guns

Hagerty will act as agents to insure tracked vehicles in Ontario, Canada?
If you have not allowed your current policy from 2013 or earlier to expire: maybe.
New policy? Nada. :nono:

On Jan. 1, 2012 Manitoba passed the The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Act. Under the act a fortified vehicle is specified as:

"fortified vehicle" means a vehicle that has one or more of the following fortifications:
(a) material that has been designed to be resistant to explosives, bullets or other projectiles on a door or window, or anywhere else on the interior or exterior of the vehicle;
(b) subject to the regulations, protective material such as metal, ballistic nylon or reinforced fibreglass that has been added to the interior or exterior of the vehicle after it was manufactured;
(c) holes or slots that allow a firearm to be discharged from the vehicle without exposing the shooter;
(d) any other prescribed fortification.

Prior to the Act becoming law, I wrote a letter to my local Member of Legislature Assembly regarding my hobby and the impact the act would have. The MLA forwarded my letter to the Minister of Justice. To shorten the story a senior advisor met with me in my shop looked at the vehicles and agreed that we should be exempt and under the regulations military vehicles are exempt. If the change was not made, I would have had to sell my Ferret.

Gord Falk
Steinbach, MB

I have said it before Gord, and I'll say it again Gord....good work. Note that the exemption for possession of the armored vehicle only applies to the owner under this "feel good" law. It does not apply to the loan of the vehicle. In that case, the possessor would have to obtain the required permit. Cost is $100 and it's good for 5 years.

This law was passed in reaction to gangsters and criminals armouring the insides of their daily driver vehicles to the point that they were unsafe to steer and brake. The crooks weren't afraid of the cops, only getting attacked and robbed by other gangs. Some provinces have drug gang problems of this magnitude; Manitoba was trying to get ahead of the issue. The same mentality that prevents individuals from owning certain types of body armour.