Bombardier snowmobiles (was: Identification quizz 2)
 

Z 5874161 is acording to my book a Bombadier ‘Truck 15 cwt Tracked G/S’, to Demand S/M 6028, the pioneer in the batch Z 5874161 to 5874541. However the caption on the photo suggests a Canadian snowmobile! A Cadillac V-8 engined Canadian Ferand and Delorme!

Why F & D? 'The Valcourt plant is too small for such an order, so Joseph-Armand Bombardier begins production in an existing Montreal factory. He continues manufacturing parts in Valcourt to maintain employment for village workers'. This factory was in fact that of Ferand and [et?] Delorme Limited [Limitee?] hence the description.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...lk/tracked.jpg


Courtesy of Hanno, and from Bart:

'Technical characteristics as listed in Bart Vanderveen's Fighting Vehicles Directory:
Snowmobile, Canadian, Armoured, Mk I (Farland & Delorme)
Cadillac V8-cyl, 125 bhp, 4F1R (Hydramatic), 154x101x58 in, 9400 lb.
Also known as Car, Armoured, Tracked.
Role: Light Reconnaissance car with crew of two. No. 19 W/T set, Bren and Sten gun etc. 16 Run Flat tyres (4.50-16); 35-in tracks.'

Would this have been the Canadian contract, to which the Ministry of Supply allocated S/M 6028?

'From the AEDB DESIGN RECORD 1945:
"ORDERS
Contract ~ Requisition Number ~ File No. ~ Qty
UN 3110 ~ AID/GB - 1 ~ BSB-2827 (PC2621) ~ 400 '

The other Bombardier vehicles listed in the Census List are to S/M 2561 'Car Half Tracked Personnel'. I assumed that these were the original vehicles, and of course Lars confirms. Note the wide disparity between actual vehicle types and the M of Supply official descriptions!!! May I have a photo please just to see what they looked like?

Incidentally under 'ELIASON' are listed Motor Toboggans to S/M 2317 and 2772, M 4773981 to 477388 [which must be transposed] and 477389 to 4773890 respectively.

Re: Identification quizz 2
 

The Canadian Armoured Snowmobile Mk.1 a Tracked 15-cwt truck? Hmm, makes sense, in a way.

Attached goes a pic of runner-up Z5874162 on test at the WVEE in Britain (source: Fletcher, The Universal Tank)

Could you elaborate on the "Ferand and Delorne" bit?

H.

SM 2561
 

David and Hanno,

I can confirm that SM 2561 are the half-tracked Snowmobiles made by "Bombardier Snowmobiles, Valcourt, Quebec".

The Vehicle Code for these were: BHT 8 - SNOW - 1

I have found some pics I have of one of them still in running condition (sligthly modified), but I only have the negatives left. I will try to scan the negatives - otherwise I will have to make new paper copies. I will also look through some books to see if I can find pics of them in civilian use in Norway.

From the data plate:

VEHICLE CODE BHT 8 - SNOW - 1
CHASSIS SERIAL DND 100 - 80
ENGINE SERIAL 3 G - 39552 F
TRANSMISSION SERIAL Z 23873
ORDER NO SM 2561
DATE OF MFG 10 - 15 - 42

The owner of this one have two, the other one have CHASSIS SERIAL DND 100 - 81 and DATE OF MFG 10 - 16 - 42 (I don't have more information for that vehicle as I have never seen it - but I will see if I can manage to take some photos the next time I am up where they are located).

ELIASON Motor Tobaggan
 

David,

According to Fred W. Crimsons US Military Tracked Vehicles, published by Motorbooks International in 1992, chapter 8: Cargo and Personnel Carriers, page 213 (in my copy) the Eliason Motor Toboggan was developed and built by the Four Wheel Drive Auto Company of Clintonville, Wisconsin. The US Army bought a number of them.

According to your information they must have been tested by the British as well.

SM 2561
 

David,

This photo is scanned from "Kubinka, The Russian Museum of Armoured Vehicles" by Michael K. Cecil and show one of these that was sent to the Soviet Union for testing.

As far as I know a total of 129 was built, 100 was delivered to the British Forces, 26 to the Canadian Forces and 3 to the Soviet Union Forces for testing.

Is it possible that SM 2561 only includes the 100 vehicles delivered to the British - the chassis serial at the one I have seen is DND 100 - 80, the other one in the same location have chassis serial DND 100 - 81. DND is possibly the Canadian Departement of National Defence through which the order (SM 2561) maybe was placed? Maybe the Canadian order have a LV (or CDLV) contract demand number. And the ones sent to the Soveiet Union?

I will attach some more pics as well:)

SM 2561
 

This pic shows one SM 2561 Bombardier Snowmobile (and a Studebaker M29) belonging to a Norwegian hotel in the Valdres region in southern Norway in the 50's. The cab/body of these SM 2561 snowmobiles are much narrower than on the postwar production models by Bombardier.

SM 2561
 

This pic shows Bombardier Snowmobiles and a Weasel at Fagernes railway station i the Valdres region in the 50's. The 3 snowmobiles on the left are different postwar types - some even with wheels in front - the front skis or wheels are placed under the cab at each side - the 2 on the right are SM 2561 with the narrower cab/body - with the skis/steering on each side of the cab/body and far right is of course the Weasel.

SM 2561
 

A poor pic of the data plate from chassis serial DND 100 - 80:

Left headlamp (as on CMP cab 11/12) with bracket for the side lamp:
Attachment 2936

Part of the instrument panel:
Attachment 2938

Part of the instrument panel II:
Attachment 2939

Part of the instrument panel III:
Attachment 2940

Instrument panel IV:
Attachment 2941

Ford parts?
 

Are these Ford V8 powered? Aw heck, now I'm going to have to find one of these!
The steering wheel is from a 1938/39 Ford truck and the steering column is from 1937/38/39 column shift 1/2 ton truck. The speedo is from a 37/38 truck and of course the brass plates the switches are on are from a Ford CMP.
My guess is that Mr Bombardier cannabalised a 1938 or 39 truck to build these, but the engine number is very similar to the sequence for a 239in mercury engine, so perhaps he obtained his components from the Ford factory?

Oversnow
 

Hey a snow question this is my end of Australia, Tony the bombadiers were in use as pictured in Australia up until very recently if not still. Ipec Oversnow used them to transport people and goods between Perisher Valley and Charletes Pass. They could also be chareterd to move your family up to an on snow lodge. They were fitted with V8 holdens better go and look for one then. A chap in Sydney AMVC has a very nice tucker oversnow from Perisher these had independent tracks on all drive wheels and would operate at extreme angles they were I believe based on Dodge 1/2 tonner running gear.:yappy:

Engine
 

Tony, that's a Canadian Mercury 1942 engine number, and rhd version surely? Similar to a CMP? I wonder if M. Bombardier bought a job lot of components from Ford of Canada from 1937-8 and used them up over the years? Fords always did have the edge at least post-war on supplying components for companies, and still do. In England Fords sold from about 1948 refurbished V-8s that were rebuilt by Lincoln Cars Limited, for all manner of purposes. Then they offered the V-8 Pilot engine, and finally from 1953 the Consul/Zephyr 4 and 6 engines. Business expanded so much that Ford Industrial Engines moved from Dagenham to a 'hole in the wall' at Lincoln Cars.

Ford or Cadillac?
 

So if that is a Ford 239in engine number on the builder's plate, why are they described by Bart as having a Cadillac motor? I'm sure Bart could spot the difference between a Ford Flathead and a Caddy Flathead, and if specified for a 125hp Cad, why fit a 95hp Ford?

Hey Mark, that's interesting. I might have to make a trip down to Harlot's Arse, er, Charlotte's Pass to try and find one. Would it qualify for "Year of the Carrier"?

Like one of these?
 

The US DOD bought a lot of standard models, particularly the Air Force, but the specially-developed military ones were just too heavy.

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ORANGE6.jpg

Tucker Snow Truck
 

Thats the one Gordon except the ones down under are Blue. You wouldnt loose that orange one in a snowstorm.

L'Auto-Neige Bombardier
 

Reviving an old thread with pictures of a maintenance manual listing SM 2561 (not mine):

Attachment 118757 Attachment 118758

that would be a pleasant afternoon reading

Bombardier maintenance manual
 

That would be a nice read. Postwar Bombardiers, there were so many different models , can be pretty sparse on information at times .
K Armitage

Bombardier R66 Snowmobile
 

Here is a photograph of a Bombardier R66 Snowmobile at Churchill, Manitoba.

Attachment 118766

The CWM has a Bombardier Snowmobile on display, though it is not listed on their site https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/

The attached picture comes from http://silverhawkauthor.com/tanks-an...rt-ii_989.html where it is incorrectly captioned as a "Bombardier Penguin Mk III Armoured Snowmobile, 1943."

Attachment 118783

Armoured Snowmobile photographed while at Chertsey testing grounds in the UK

Attachment 131601

Canadian Half-Track Snowmobiles by Paul Roberts. JoMO, January 2000

Attachment 136794