WANTED - Tannoy Transformer Socket
 

Does anyone have one of these Tannoy Transformer sockets they are happy to sell me please?

This pic is from the inside of Cobbaton's Churchill (thanks Tim Isaac!)... however, the same fitting also exists in Bovington's Firefly.

I am assuming it is a WW2 fitting - not a post-ww2 modification.

Am not sure why there would be a need for a separate powered mic, rather than one on the loom with the headset... if anyone knows, I'd be most interested to know please.

Attachment 93109

Cheers

Tim

I suspect the tannoy will be there for the same reason it is on the gun lines. During a fire mission (tanks can usually do some level of indirect fire), or even a direct shoot, the headphones will get tangled up while performing the work of selecting ammunition, setting fuzes, loading the breech, discarding the old brass etc. With the tank in a stationary position, using the tannoy will allow a little more freedom for the crew in order to pass in target information.

Rob.

This could well be the case - I'd not considered it.

The Firefly is fitted with an Azimuth Indicator for indirect fire.

So, perhaps the Tannoy connector is to be used in a similar vein to "Telephone, Loudspeaking, No2"... which has the same microphone (though with Telephone, Loudspeaking No2, the unit is set up to allow the commander to speak to all 4 guns in the Troop, or each individually).

However, it still seems odd that there would be a handset with no headset (TEL LS No2 uses the DLR no 4 Headset I think, on a single pin plug).

Tim



Cheers

Tim

If the handset was for use with the tannoy type speaker system, why would you need a headset? The speaker was loud enough to be heard if the situation warrants it's use. Perhaps the remote plug for the handset is to allow a little separation from the speaker to the microphone to prevent feedback?

Do all 4 tanks communicate fire orders, or was it primarily the troop comander? From my limited time supporting the artillery, tannoy communications was pretty much a one way affair from the battery CP to the guns.

It's the Emergency Crew Communication System, and allows the commander to talk to the crew even if the intercom amplifier has failed or is switched off (as long as there is still battery power to the transformer, of course).

The box contains the microphone transformer for the power microphone, possibly a resistor if it's a 24-volt unit that used the same transformer as the original 12 volt ones, and has a 3-wire cable to the vehicle junction box. (+12 volts, Ground, and 'Speech' (i.e. the crew intercom circuit).) They were designed to provide the same output as the WS19 intercom amplifier.

As far as I know they (or a slightly more modern equivalent) are still fitted to more recent vehicles. (I have a 24-volt one with 6-pin connectors from the 'New Range' era.)

Chris.

Chris

Excellent - thanks!

Just need to find one of those now.

Do you have a pic of the modern one please - perhaps some of the parts are sufficiently interchangeable to use to make one if I cannot find an original.

Will in the meantime add to my list of parts still to find (though fortunately I think there are no more after this and the A set antenna/vario parts for the Wireless system).

Cheers

Tim

Although not a standard fitting in Armoured Cars, I wired one of these boxes into my Humber Armoured Car. A very good safety feature.

The Drivers IC Box also contains a Transformer and uses a Tannoy Mic and Head Set so from memory he can also reply to the Commander.

It depends on the IC box, which in turn depends on the number of slip-rings in the rotary base junction (in tanks) and also the design date for the setup.

Early intercom systems used Junction Distribution No.1 (with 'Call Commander' button and buzzer) which had a transformer for the carbon microphone and used Headgear No.2 (standard headset but grey metal 'Tannoy' microphone.

If more headsets were needed (Co-Driver, etc.), Junction Distribution No.2 was added (again with the transformer and using the carbon microphone, but no buzzer or call button).

Both of these required 12V and an earth connection, plus the 'Speech' and 'Signal' wires that came from the WS19 control units, into the set itself, then out via the supply unit to the turret junction box, then via the rotary base junction into the hull.

Later tanks had more circuits available via the rotary base junction, and so Junction Distribution No.3 and No.4 were introduced (as the equivalent of No.1 & No.2) which used the standard headset with dynamic microphone. (This simplified things from a production and operation point of view. Plugging a dynamic microphone into JD1 or JD2 got you a working headset but nonfunctional microphone. Plugging a carbon microphone into the WS19 control box likewise didn't work at all on the IC position, but (due to the wiring differences) got you a ridiculous audio level on A or B set transmit (because the carbon microphone was then connected to the relay line (via the pressel switch) and then earthed through the microphone transformer primary, giving an absolutely HUGE audio output compared to the expected dynamic insert - do not do this, it's bad for your ears.)

The Emergency Crew Communication System was retained, and the commander had a Tannoy microphone (identical to those used on the ALS gun control speakers) that plugged into the transformer unit, and would operate even if the intercom amplifer was switched off or nonfunctional. (Depending on where it received its 12V supply from it may even work if all the tank electrics were switched off, as long as battery power was available!)

It survived into the modern era, and an equivalent existed (using the same 3-pin connector) with the 'Larkspur'/New Range sets. (As did the later version of the Tank Telephone system with the spring-loaded reel - originally with a snatch socket and matching moulded rubber handset sporting two microphone inserts(!), then the green 'Larkspur' plastic handset, and finally the black plastic 'Clansman' type. Apart from the handset, the only thing that changed was the replacement of the 'call buzzer' with an electronic audio tone generator equivalent. Someday I'll get one of those, (hopefully with the buzzer) but but whenever I've seen them I've had too much to carry or they've been in 'Job Lots' and I only want a couple (or three, one with buzzer and snatch socket, and one each Larkspur & Clansman).)

(Right now I have Too Much Clutter and neither the time nor the space to sort it all out. I'm working on this.) :D

I know I have one each of the WW2 and 'New Range' ECCS boxes, if I've got (or spot) a second WW2 one I'll put it aside for Tim (for whom I'm still trying to find a spare aerial feeder tab washer to go with his base and mount).

Chris.

Tim,

In case you are still on the search for this socket:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Un...64O:rk:11:pf:0

Colin

Colin

All sorted now - thanks for the head's up though.

Cheers

Tim