South African Fords
 

4x2, armoured cars and 6x4!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/33033...+African+Fords

6x4
 

Ford of Dagenham produced 6x4 Ford, 1940 Models, for the South African Defence Force using County conversions...I can imagine that County Commercial Cars Ltd exported 6x4 and 6x2 conversion kits to the Port Elizabeth factory (which would have been a Canadian Ford subsidary).

Hello!

As far as I know, besides Field Brigades which fought in East Africa and Abyssinia and were armed with 18pdr guns, 4.5-in. and 3.7-in. howitzers, the 1st Medium Brigade, S.A.H.A., with one battery of 60pdr and one of 6-in. howitzers also served in the campaign. Anyone know what trucks (tractors) did South Africans use to tow their 60pdr and 6inch guns? Same 6x4 Ford trucks or something heavier?

Leonid :)

SA Vehicles
 

The Artillery used some crawlers to pull the 60pdr field guns. These were imported from the USA. The following types wee used:

a. Caterpillar "Thirty" petrol.
b. Caterpillar R2.
c. Caterpillar R4 petrol.
d. Caterpillar D4 Diesel.
e. Caterpillar D6 Diesel
I have found 98 serial numbers in my reaseach so far. A number of the R4's were shipped to East Africa for service during the campaign there.

The 6X4 lorries were a locally produced vehicle. The chassis being imported from Canada and the body being locally produced by the Ford Co in Port Elizabeth. They were called a Warford. (War = WW2 and Ford = Ford Co). It is unclear how many were produced but it seems to be quite a large number, going by the serials and U numbers.

Regards

William Marshall
SA Colours & Markings

Thanks for that info!

But Warford was also the name of a company, Baumis-Warford Co Inc of Townsend Massachusetts, that converted Fords into tamdem drive 6x4 vehicles that were known as Warfords!

So could they also have had a hand in the Port Elizabeth production?

Or possibly the SA 6x4 Fords were modelled on the Warfords?

Kind regards,

Nuyt

And this South African seems to have a Warford:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/29...ion-axles.html

Post WW2 the company was named Baumis. They converted at least this Chevrolet 1948:

rear

Marmon Herringtons
 

I remember reading in one of New Zealands official history books that we were issued early in the war with Marmon Herringtons from South Africa. ( or as it says, on a war time 900 x 16 sand tyre, I have, the "Republik of Suid Afrika")

But those are 4x4 armoured cars.

The funny thing is of course that the South Africans (and the whole Commonwealth for that matter) named their armoured cars or recce cars on Ford chassis "Marmon-Herringtons", just because of the 4x4 axle conversion supplied to Ford PE! Even though the early Marks (4x2) and later Marks (IV on CMP chassis) had nothing to do with that US company!

I can thus imagine that they called their 6x4 Ford trucks "Warfords", just because of the tandem axle conversion delivered by that US company....

I forgot: Warford was active internationally:

They offered 6x4 Fords as artillery tractors to the Dutch East Indies:
http://www.overvalwagen.com/engineervehicles.html

Check out the new SA Warford pics:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/33033...+African+Fords

Leonid,

I also found CMP Artillery tractors

another one

and whats this?
Possibly Sappers

Excellent, Nuyt, never seen these before!

Could you please post the Pathe details?

Hanno

Sure

2147.03 | MILITARY PARADE - SOUTH AFRICA (1:04:00:00 - 1:09:33:00)
Johannesburg, South Africa.

Title reads 'To assist those who fight for us".

Various shots of big military parade through crowded streets of Johannesburg - troops, nurses, tanks. Several air shots of big fair. Several shots of the crowd at fair.

General Smuts is seen inspecting the Guard of Honour at the ceremonial opening of the fair. Mass of the South African Air Force planes flying over in formation. Several air to air shots of the planes in flight.

General Smuts addressing large audience at the opening ceremony - natural sound. He is talking about the terrible war, South African contribution in the battle of El Alamein. People applauding. He talks about global war, then thanks South Africans on their contribution.

Various shots of the fair, rides, crowds having fun. Long shot of the Soviet pavilion with large red star and line of red flags in front. Several shots of the miniature town with various styles houses etc. Model railway with children watching the train travelling. Various shots of the weapons on display. Little boy is seen 'operating' antiaircraft gun.

Several shots of the arena with cowboy riding strange motorcycle. Various shots of the procession of old canons with men in period clothes with them. Some of the modern guns drawn by lorries seen. Various shots of line of old and new guns in action in arena, crowd watching the display. Several shots of the women services staging a large PT display - item abruptly stops here.

Film Number
 

Please supply the film number of the Sappers ? What's this photo ?

Regards

William
PS: I have not discovered any evidence that the Warford Co supplied the rear axels, still looking.

Eric:
I think your "What's This?" is some sort of truck mounted "stationary engine" as we call it.

Used by engineer units for providing compressed air, electricity, water pumping etc. etc.

In this country, LeRoi, Cummins and others made such engines in that time period.
Bill

William, the Sappers film is

600.10 | SPRINGBOKS MANOEUVRE (aka SOUTH AFRICAN ARMY MANOEUVRES) (1:12:41:00 - 1:14:40:00)

Unused / unissued material - dates unclear or unknown.

Title reads: "African Mirror No. 120. Springboks Manoeuvre".

South Africa.

South African soldiers on exercise in the Veldt. Small field artillery prepared. Men lay low with rifles.

Various shots of army engineers pumping water into large canvas tanks and adding chlorine to provide drinking water for the troops.

MS field guns firing. Troops rush forwards from their hiding places. More shots of mock combat. General Botha is among the officers watching.

Various shots of sappers blowing up a bridge. They plant explosives and run for cover.

LS of explosion as bridge is destroyed.

Troops of the opposing side on the manoeuvres built a box girder bridge to replace the one that was demolished. Troops and armoured car cross the new bridge.



It could be a water distilling unit....:

"Various shots of army engineers pumping water into large canvas tanks and adding chlorine to provide drinking water for the troops."

Re: SA Vehicles
 

Thanks a million for the info! :note:

BTW: I've read that heavy section of LRDG used 6-wheeled Ford Marmon Herrington 6-tonner trucks.
http://www.lrdg.de/vehicles3.htm
Is this model related to South African Fords? Does anyone have more info about that?

Leonid

Vanderveen in his pre-1940 book shows a picture of a 1936 New Zealand Fordson 6x4 as artillery portee truck. He writes: "Similar trucks were used in South Africa, with different bodywork for carrying guns and limber."

What does that mean: Similar Fordson trucks or similar any trucks? Could the pre-war SA 6 wheelers have been Fordsons instead of the 1941 Warfords?

William? David?

Pictures of the Warford
 

Attached, two links to some pictures in my Webshots album, called SA Military:

http://news.webshots.com/photo/27829...FHP?vhost=news

http://news.webshots.com/photo/24218...Snf?vhost=news

Hope this helps, regards

William

Thank you very much William! :note:
Another helpful photo to the subject.
http://news.webshots.com/photo/25096...39564579DcHccz
This seems to be one of tractors which you have been talking about. Judging by caption, South Africans did use them not only to tow 60 pdr guns but also for 6 inch howitzers!

BTW: I'm still wondering why South Africans did not modernize all their guns with pneumatic tyres instead of using "portee" method (that was not too convenient)? I think they could... :confused

Yours sincerely
Leon :)

Very nice shots William, thanks!

Kind regards,
Nuyt

Re: Re: SA Vehicles
 

Leonid,
those trucks were from an oil company, forgot the name.
Has been discussed before.

Marmon-Herrington Lorries
 

No evidence that SA ever produced Marmon-Herrington lorries, only the 4X4 conversions for the armoured cars were improrted from the USA. I asume that the LRDG got these lorries from the USA via the UK but not from SA.

Indeed.

The Osprey New Vanguard series book on the LRDG states that the 4 Ford/M-H 6x6 6-ton trucks were taken over from the Southern Mediterranean Oil Company.

Dear William,
On the net I found lots of references to the books of Keith Orpen, dealing with SA regiments and units, like the Cape Artillery, Transvaal Horse Artillery and Engineers. The books appear expensive!
Do you have access to these books or could you say if these are worthwhile and have lots of illustrations say of vehicles and such?

Kind rgds
Nuyt

SA Books
 

Nuyt

Contact me at mechinf@netactive.co.za with a list of books you are interested in and I can confirm if they are worth the money.

regards

William