Tower for 17-pdr
 

I read that the Cdn Army in NWE used the American 2½-ton 6 x 6 lorry as the tower for the 17-pdr A-Tk gun. Can anyone confirm this and can anyone post a photo (ideally with archives reference number.)

Re: Tower for 17-pdr
 

Clive, as per my posting in "British GMC?", it seems the CCKW-352 in British service was definitely used as a tractor for the the Bofors 40-mm AA gun, whilst 17- and/or 6-pdr AT guns seem to have been towed as well. As far as I can ascertain, no 25-pdr field guns were towed by Commonwealth CCKW-352's during WW2.

GMC 2 1/2 ton towing 17 pdr AT Gun
 

A photo in the IWM archives in London, (NA7702) shows a line of GMC CCKW-353 (or similar GMC CCKW 352's) towing Mk I 17pdrs, waiting for the attack over the River Volturno, Italy, Oct 1943. The photo shows only the rear of the trucks, so I couldn't say which model they were. The rear vehicle carries the unit serial 64 and a vehicle number '53099???. The vehicles and guns are painted in a light colour over which a darker grey or green has been painted in a disruptive pattern. I doubt the unit was Canadian but at least it confirms the GMC's use as an Artillery Tractor. From various photos it is apparent that in the Sicilian & Italian Campaign the 17pdr AT gun was towed intially by the Morris Quad and Ford WOT 8 (seen towing a 17pdr 'Mk II' on 25pdr carriage) then GMC's until finally the M5A1 & M9A1 half tracks became available.

Larry Hayward

MVT member 11001

GMC
 

Clive:
We did not use any US sourced deuces in any capacity until after WW2.

Towers for 17 PDR:
-Ram (turretless)
-halftracks
-the occasional quad

Don

Re: GMC 2 1/2 ton towing 17 pdr AT Gun
 

Larry, Charles Bogart in 'The 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment' (AFV News, Vol.32, No.1, January-April 1997, p.8) mentions two batteries of the 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment in Italy, "receiving U.S. 2½-ton trucks in place of the British tractors used for towing their guns" in August 1943. He noted that in June '43 the 93rd converted to a new establishment of four batteries, one self-propelled and three towed, of which one had 17-pounders with Mark II carriages and the other two 6-pounders. Could the picture you mention show units of the 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment?

Also, according to Andy Talbot, Field Marshal Lord Carver's Book of the War in Italy; 1943-1945 there is a photo of 352's (or 353's) towing 17 pdr A/T guns through Scarfati on 29 September 1943. It claims they are of 65th AT Regt RA (Norfolk Yeomanry).

This could well be the camouflage scheme introduced in Italy in April 1943, which used bold patterns of black, or SCC7 (a dark olive green), over a base of SCC.5 "Light Mud". Reportedly, this scheme was used by the British only, which would indicate the trucks in your picture are British.

Regards,
Hanno

Re: Re: GMC 2 1/2 ton towing 17 pdr AT Gun
 

Hanno;

The picture in question:

Cheers :)

GMC & 17pdr AT gun
 

The photo in the IWM archives shows 17pdrs on proper carriages, not the makeshift MkII on the 25 pdr gun carriage.

The unit serial 64 was used by AT Regts RA in an Armoured Division, MEF from October 1942 so this suggests a unit in the IWM photo had been in North Africa, such as the 65th AT Regt RA of the 7th Armoured Division. Many units in Italy used out of date markings! Also the vehicle seen in Scarfati has identical stowage on its 17pdr to one seen in the IWM photo, none of which are the same!

Re: GMC & 17pdr AT gun
 

Mark, thanks for the pic!

Larry, so it could be NA7702 shows units of the 65th AT Regt RA as well? But the picture taken at Scarfati does not seem to show the light colour with darker grey or green disruptive colour sheme.

Thanks!
Hanno

Re: Tower for 17-pdr
 

In REPORT NO. 141 HISTORICAL SECTION CANADIAN MILITARY HEADQUARTERS I read it was the intention to use the American 2½-ton 6 x 6 lorry, but it was found they were not available.

H.

GMC & 17pdr
 

This is the photo

Re: GMC & 17pdr
 

Excellent, thanks!

H.

The Australian Army used the CCKW-353 in Korea as a 17-pdr gun tractor. Note the roundel!
Search the AWM database for "17 Pounder anti tank guns" during the Korean war period a couple more pics.