MLU FORUM - Film sequence.

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m kenny

18-06-14 00:20

Film sequence.

Most of this strip (if not all) was shot by a Canadian cameraman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1oItwYud4

Some of it (2:06 to 2:46) is Cagny but I am more interested in the location of the staged scenes around the pak 88 (1:36 to 2:02)
There is also a still of the same location widely available around the net that claims it was taken on 18/7/44 but I doubt it is anything more than a guess. It must be a Canadian photo but it is never identified by number nor have I seen it in any publication

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img833/795/pak88.jpg

What I would like to know is there a list of the holdings of Canadian WW2 films. I have a copy of the WW2 IWM Normandy list so I know it is not in the UK collection. I am hoping there is a Canadian 'master list'.

Ed Storey

18-06-14 03:04

Cinefilm

Your attached Pathe film may have been shot by a Canadian, but the troops for the most part appear to be British.

If there is a Canadian 'Master List' of Canadian cinefilm, it may well be held by the National Film Board (NFB).

motto

18-06-14 03:40

One of the crew in the first sequence is wearing a length of what appears to be .303 Vickers belt tied around his waist holding spent cases. I don't imagine it's for decoration. Any ideas?

David

m kenny

18-06-14 04:16

I bet its to hold those funny little tubes he is putting in the nose of the shells!

The Pathe clip is not one continuous take. Consider each break to be a different date and/or location. Pathe were given this footage free during the war and they had access to the original raw footage. It appears that some of it has had the cameraman and date chalkboard clipped out and then randomly spliced with other footage. The footage I linked is for sure all from around the time of Goodwood (18-20 July 1944) but it is not to be assumed it is all from the same source.

I know for certain it is not part of the IWM Museum film collection so it must be Canadian. Same with the still photo. It is not in the IWM B collection so it too must be Canadian. The film and still cameramen usualy worked in pairs so that is why the often covered the same things.

motto

18-06-14 08:21

Looking at it again, there are two fellows shown opening cylindrical containers, removing the fuses and screwing them into the shells. I don't see anything removed from the belt.
Meanwhile, those funny little tubes look as though they may be rimmed and some appear to have pointed objects at the other end sticking out below the belt or do my eyes deceive me?

David

Dave Mills

18-06-14 10:06

From my Arty experience and not having worked on the medium 5.5 inch Howitzer Batteries and only beside them with the 105mm howitzer Batteries, I can say that the belt he is wearing is the Ballast charge rounds which is a blank .303 cartridge and is inserted in the back of the screw breach, the lanyard is pulled allowing the firing pin to strike the cartridge which then ignites the charge bag of propellant hurting the round down range with pin point accuracy. Go Arty.

As far as I can remember and having only worked beside the medium batteries all 5.5 inch rounds came with no fuse fitted,hence, the gun number inserting the appropriate fuse as ordered by the command post GPO.

motto

18-06-14 14:51

Thanks Dave, your explanation fits perfectly with the action depicted. The part where the igniter is replaced is not shown that's all. I think you see the breech operator start the procedure and maybe finish but the actual doing of it is missing.
It took me a little while to spot the gun layer, he is fairly unobtrusive as he just steps forward to look through the sight. He is lining up on an aiming post I would suppose.

David

Mike Cecil

18-06-14 20:40

.... and the loader on the 17pdr AT knows he fluffed the loading, too: check the guilty look on his face!

The 5.5inch preparation of ammunition is that the round is removed from its package, the plug removed from the top, and a B charge (a little bag of booster) is rolled between the fingers and inserted into the cavity. The correct fuze is then screwed into the top of the projectile. (The fuze safety cap was not removed until the projectile was placed into the loading tray, just prior to ramming) The fuze was set (if applicable to the fuze type) according to the info from the GPO. Up to six rounds could be prepared at each gun position prior to and during a fire mission (that's peacetime -- wonder how many they prepared during war?)

The No.2 gun number was responsible for changing the ignition tube after each shot was fired. He did this immediately after the projectile was rammed (which he checks for correct ram by seeing if the mark on the rammer aligns with the breech face). Once the rammer is removed, he flips the lock and extracts the spent tube before he places the new ignition tube into the lock, pushing it home with his right thumb, then raises the lock to the first position. He does this as the number 6 places the charge bag into the breech. No.2 then closes the breech and closes the lock to the firing position. The firing lanyard is attached by No.2 only when ordered to do so just before the order to fire is given.

I'm sure I've seen one of those belts (or something very much like it) that the ignition tubes are held in, and that it is part of the 5.5 inch gun CES. They have a closed off bottom to prevent the charge tubes from going all the way through, leaving a short length of tube protruding at the top (easier for No.2 to grab)

Mike C

m kenny

22-03-15 19:25

Raw footage on Pathe.

m kenny

22-03-15 19:30

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