Guess where this is...
 

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...ng/carrier.jpg

OK, I knew you couldn't place it; It was captured during the Korean war and is now in the Beijing Military Museum, which was recently visited by my friend Roger Clarke.

And what's this?

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...g/DH000072.jpg

Another captured beastie. There are a heap more images here - can anyone help me with the ID of the armour on this page?

Fantastic Pic's
The first I think is a MKII universal carrier with WASP flame thrower. The armour is very strange!
The second I think is a Oxford carrier. If It is, it most be the only one that survives!

Barry
England

Ahhh so that's the Oxford! Yes, it's the same as the one I have a pic of (side view). Well spotted, Barry. Have you had a look at the rest of the pictures?

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/carriers/oxfordbig.jpg

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...studebaker.jpg

The Studebaker with the Stalin's organs is obvious, but other armour needs identifying.

I'm not up on the distinctions betwen Russian T-series tanks (except for the T-34 of course), but the other Yank armour appears to be an M-46 (might be an early M-48), a Sherman M4A3E8, and in the separate pic, an M-24 Chaffee. I can't ID the one with twin 40mm on it without consulting reference materials.

The "strange" armour on the Wasp was standard... it was an add-on package designed specifically for the Wasp carrier.

Interesting that they have a P-51 there!

WASP Carrier
 

Here is a photo of a WASP Carrier. It belongs to the 7th Recce Regt (17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars). Note that it has the same add on armour.

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/at...=&postid=11408

M42 Duster I think, early variant before the three-pronged flash eliminators.
http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/m42/m42a.html

R.

Re: Guess where this is...
 

I knew you couldn't place it - hah! An hour late and a dollar short, matey! :)
Rob Fast already posted pictures of vehicles at the Chinese Army Museum in his thread Hong Kong Winnipeg Grenadiers sites?

H.

Wasp with additional armour
 

Steve Guthrie has more details on the additional armour fitted to Wasps. If I recall correctly, they were metal boxes filled with asphalt...

Pic below shows a Canadian officer showing a similar Wasp to a Nationalist Chinese Army officer shortly after WW2:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/at...=&postid=10454

Looks like a nice museum!

The 40mm twin looks like an M19 to me. This vehicle was based on the m24 Chaffee Chassis:

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m19a1.jpg

Alex

picture source: http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics

The tank on the left of the Sherman M4A3E8, looks like a M26 Pershing

http://www.ferreamole.it/images/pers...an/Img0003.jpg

source: http://www.ferreamole.it/images/pers...an/Img0003.jpg

The Tank Destroyer to the right of the M19 40mm, looks like a late model M36 Tank Destoyer. (it has the bow machine gun, so maybe a M36B2???)

http://tanks2go.com/United_States/images/USm36-1.jpg

source:
http://tanks2go.com/United_States/images/USm36-1.jpg

Alex

Oxford Carrier, indeed! Built in 1944 only a few saw service, most were used after the war. Art Johnson told us a while ago the Canadian 25th Brigade in Europe used Oxfords to tow 17 pdrs.
There is at least another survivor, I saw it in the metal some ten years ago but did not fully realise what it was...

H.

M36B2 90-mm Gun Motor Carriage (center):
http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...g/DH000075.jpg

Chaffee M24 Light Tank:
http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...g/DH000073.jpg

Pershing M26 Heavy/Medium Tank and Sherman M4A3(76)W HVSS Medium Tank:
http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...g/DH000074.jpg

Carrier, Tracked, CT20 (Carrier, Oxford MkI):
http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/readerp...g/DH000072.jpg

Good Eye,Barry...
Here is the 3/4 front from the original manual...

Go on Alex, give us some more of that!

Correct link reads: 6 pdr service.

More pics of the Oxford Carrier to follow in due course....

H.

Re: WASP Carrier
 

Hello John McGillivray.

I have that same picture in the Regimental History of the 17th Duke of York (7 Recce Regt).

A long ago thread on this forum argued that .30 cal and .50 cal MGs weren't used on carriers. Of course they were, but note also that in this pic, the carrier is a T16 (4 bogie).

Just yesterday, in our local Legion, I talked to a former 7th Recce Regt trooper. He said that the "usual" Universal Carrier (3 bogie) couldn't handle the weight of the oxygen tank on one sponson and the gelid fuel on the other sponson. The carrier was ass end heavy. Wasn't 'til the T16 came along that the balance was sorted out.

When these guys are finally dismissed, how are we to gain the knowledge that they have? A chance question or remark can fit a piece into a puzzle that one has been trying to figure out for years.

If you can, chat up a vet...soak up his knowledge...add his thoughts to your own research date base. They ain't gonna be around forever...nor us.

Re: Re: WASP Carrier
 

Jon, interesting story.

Indeed officially .30 and .50 cal. MGs were not officially stowed on carriers, but in action the troops quickly found weapons to suit their needs. A well known picture of a T16 sporting a .50 cal. can be found here. Interestingly, the Kangaroo Regiment disliked the .50 cal. fitted on the pulpit ring mount of their converted Priest Kangaroos and got rid of them at some point. A Kangaroo vet told me they tended to get snagged in tree branches and were too really heavy to operate quickly.
As you say, it is important we soak up the vet's knowledge. Before we realise it they are gone!

About John's picture: this is a universal carrier, not a T16 - note it hasn't got the sloping front armour of the latter. But I am thrilled to hear a vet remembers in detail how a T16 apparently was fitted out as a Wasp! Would there be any possibility to find out if this was a one/off field conversion?

H.

Re: Re: Re: WASP Carrier
 

Hanno...the 7th Recce Regt ex Trooper comes into the Legion irregularly. I'll chat him up again when I next see him, in order to attempt to clear up your point about UC vs T 16.

But, he immediately pointed to that picture of the Wasp and said that it was a T 16, with the explanation as I described before.

Re: Re: Re: Re: WASP Carrier
 

Jon, whether or not this particular picture shows a T16 is irrelevant - what is important is that he remembers T16s kitted out with Wasp flame thrower equipment. Please try to get more information on this subject. Were they issued these "T16 Wasps", did they convert them themselves, was there one/a couple or several platoons, etc. etc.
And oh, buy the old bugger a beer from a guy in Holland and say thanks!

Hanno

Hello Jon,

I originally came across the photo of the Wasp in the 7th Recce History.

Here is a link to photos of a WASP IIC similar to the one in the 7th Recce photo. It is based on a standard UC Carrier and not a T16. Sixty years is a long time ago, and veteran’s memories are not what they use to be. It may be that he is getting confused with the T16’s used to tow the eight 6 pounder guns in the anti-tank battery of 7th Recce’s HQ Squadron.

http://www.dana-nield.com/vimy/Wasp.asp

Well, guys, I finally hooked up with the ex Trooper from 7th Recce Regt. I posed to him the questions which arose during this thread.

While reviewing copies of the thread, which I printed off, he indicated that UCs were used for WASP training, but that T16s were used in action (c.Jul '44).

He was also quite emphatic that there was no memory lapses in his recall...and he stated that T16s were used, in action, in the WASP role as well as for towing A/T guns.

...and, yes, Hanno, I bought the old bugger a beer, from Holland.

Jon, thanks for verifying this. Somehow we need to find more evidence to further endorse this veteran's account.

And thanks for buying the old bugger a beer from Holland - I owe you one!
:cheers:
Hanno