Carriers in U.S. Service
 

Just started a book called COMBAT OFFICER, by Charles H. Walker. he was a platoon leader in the U.S. Army in the PTO, one of the first landing in Guadalcanal in October 1942 to relieve/reinforce the Marines. I'm only 30 pages in so far, but he's made definitive references four or five times now to 'Bren Gun Carriers' in their service on the island. Carriers on the U.S. Army PTO TO&A???!!!

This is news to me! Can any of our Yanks clarify this? Where did they get them, how many were involved, and were they Brit, Aussie or Canadian carriers? This is truly a conundrum which needs to be solved...

BTW, the book just came out... it's on the shelves right now.

Carriers in US Service
 

Geoff

I don't have a definitive answer, however, a number of US units, both Army and Marines staged through Australia or New Zealand during the PTO. I am currently trawling through the Australian Movement Control Group war diaries at the Australian War Memorial looking for AFV movements. The files contain copious quantities of movement orders for sea, road and rail. I have noticed quite frequent orders for the movement of US forces, but didn't take any notice of vehicle types.

I would suggest that regarding the use of carriers, if the unit staged through Australia, they are most likely LP2A. If they staged through NZ then they could be the NZ equivalent of the LP2A or Brit carriers. I am unsure if any Brit carriers were shipped to NZ.

cheers

Shane

Re: Carriers in U.S. Service
 

Geoff,

I recall reading about a diverted shipment of Carriers being put to use by a US Army unit somewhere in the Pacific...a long shot, will see if I can find out more.

Also, in Wartime T16 pictures Terry Johns posted two pictures, one showing a "Carrier being used by the US Army in the Pacific" (top) and a "T-16 heavily modified by Marines in the South Pacific" (bottom). Rod Shaver, however, doubts Army Motors magazine's claim these were in the Pacific Theatre with a U.S. unit - these could equally well have been photographed on a beach in the US. We need someone to start digging in US archives...

H.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...s=&postid=9682 http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...s=&postid=9684

US Carriers
 

Hi there

I've heard all the heavy equipment of the Royals and Winnipeg Grenadiers never got to Hong Kong. After the fall, the ship carrying the carriers, trucks and motorcycles put into the Philipines and the equipment was put into use by the Yanks.

Can't quote chapter and verse but I've heard this story a couple of times from different sources.

Steve

The story of the Canadian equipment, including UC’s, being sent to the Philippines, is in Volume 1 of the official history of the Canadian Army in WWII. It was being shipped to Hong Kong on an American owned ship. However, half way across the ocean, the US Navy ordered the ship to divert to Manila. While the Canadians were fighting for their lives in Hong Kong, their heavy weapons and vehicles were sitting on the docks in Manila, courtesy of the US Navy.

Carriers in US service
 

If you look at the two photos above of the carriers modofied by the marines or being used by the marines, they both appear to be T-16s. These vehicles weren"t produced until late 1943, and probably wouldn"t have made it the to theatre of operations until 1944. These vehicles were slated for use by commonwealth forces, and by 1944, the US forces were not short of vehicles. Why would they need a vehicle such as a T-16 which was probably not well suited to the Island hopping campaigns? Does anyone have an original signal corps copy of either of these pictures which will tell where they were taken?
Rod Shaver

Re: John
 

You may be on to something, but I suspect that by the end of '41, vehicular transport out of the Philippines was last on the list of priorities.

Since this book was just published this year, I think I will send a message to the author via the publisher's website and see what I can find. He was very definitive in describing them as 'Bren Gun Carriers', so I believe he was talking about Commonweath carriers... just how they got there is one story which needs to be uncovered.

Gaudalcanal
 

Guadalcanal was in the South Pacific Area which was commanded by US Admiral Halsey from New Zealand. Most of the US troops that went to Guadacanal transited through NZ, staying in many camps throughout the country. Any vehicles or other equipment for the Yanks on Guad or the Solomons would have transited through NZ or been sourced from NZ, or shipped directly from the States. If they did have Carriers, they would be either NZ built (most likely) or supplied by Britain from Brit or Canadian manufacture. The NZ army used LP2a Carriers and even Canadian Valentine tanks successfully in their Islands campaigns, including Guadalcanal.
Australia was in the South West Pacific Area and the US troops here were under Gen Douglas Macarthur. Ol' Dougie slipped out of the Phillipines in late '41 with a handful of cronies in a US submarine to Darwin, Aust, leaving behind thousands of US soldiers to the fate of surrender to the Japanese. There was no shipping out of equipment or vehicles. There are a few references of "reverse Lend-Lease" supplies of Australian vehicles to re-equip the Americans, so we can presume a similar arrangement existed in NZ.
The pic below is of a NZ Valentine on Guadalcanal in Jan 1944 (Source: Alexander Turnbull Library WH509)

NZ LP2a Carriers
 

General Motors (NZ) Ltd built something like 1200 LP2a Carriers from early 1942. Of course, the majority went to the NZ Army, but didn't see service in North Africa or Italy, where I think supplies were made from Brit/Canadian stocks. NZ LP2a carriers were used by NZ in the Pacific, but there wasn't a requirement for 1200! Many would have remained in NZ as home defence but there is capacity to supply some to the Americans.

Re: Tony
 

AFAIK, you didn't get any of our Vals except perhaps by default (a ship got lost?). Out of 1420 manufactured, 1390 went to Russia, with the rest here for training purposes. The pic you included is a Brit Val, noteable by the bolted frontpiece (vs our cast frontpiece).

I suspect the carrier in question might indeed be an LP2A, but we'll find out! Intriguing indeed...

guadacanal survivor
 

I don't know if this will help, appears to be a LP2 that is still in Guadacanal. As best I can see it is an aussie built one. The brackets etc are identical to mine. Shane, you mention trawling through the Memorial archives, are there any records of individual hull numbers. I would like to try ^& piece together the last 60 ish years of my carrier #1127

[edited by moderator to include link to picture and source]
http://www.guadalcanal.homestead.com...UN_CARRIER.jpg
Source: http://www.guadalcanal.homestead.com/relics.html

LP2
 

The Aussie and NZ LP2/2a's are identical hull designs. The only way to pick them in pictures, they have the tracks assembled in opposite directions, assuming that they haven't reassembled them. Aussie carriers have the hull No. stamped in the bulkhead above the rear diff, Kiwi's don't.
Where is the Guadalcanal carrier pic from?

Service trials/comparisons?
 

I seem to remember reading somewhere (maybe in the Hunnicutt book on US half-tracks or in the olf "Making Tracks") that the US Army conducted trials of carriers alongside half-tracks in the Philippines just prior to commencement of hostilities.

As usual, thanks for some interesting food for thought.

Bob

Guadacanal carriers
 

http://www.guadalcanal.homestead.com/relics.html

I found it here Tony, lots of rusty stuff just looking for a loving owner.

Rob Dyba

Re: Carriers in U.S. Service
 

Came across this quote by coincidence:
Which triggered a further search turning up some more snippets:
And there's loads more to be found if you just google along.

H.

NZ LP2 Carriers on Guadalcanal
 

According to my information while one Marine tank unit was in NZ they borrowed some NZ built carriers for trails with their scout car company in exchange for letting the NZers use their M3 scout cars. They reportedly gave them back but the US forces did purchase 33 LP2A carriers from NZ, 10 of which were supplied to the Free French! According to veteran I spoke to who had contacts with the Marines who said that some carriers were taken to Guadalcanal and used for logistical purposes, unloading stores from the beaches mainly but lacking any spare parts they were eventually abandoned when they seized up.

Hi Jeff and welcome to the Forum! Good to see some more Kiwi input!
Other members may be interested in your website and publications.
http://kiwisinarmour.hobbyvista.com/index.html

G'day Tony, I had a look at the link for the Kiwi site (Hi Jeff good site) but did you notice in file 4th NZ Armoured Brigade, 9 troop C Sqd, 19th Armoured Reg, the 5th picture taken on the 18/9/44 (5 years before I was born) does it show a Lynx or a Daimler it appears to be parked up at an angle next to a building have a look not that i know that much about these but I would like, and no I haven't yet been to look at the Lynx as yet, I will take quite afew pictures when I do eventually get there cheers Dennis

Welcome
 

Hi Jeff
Great to see you here, You'll be able to set the record straight.
Must catch up,
Regards, Lynn.

MOVED TO THE TOP FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR FRIEND FRED...

Some good stuff here! :)

Bren Carrier in the Philippines
 

While searching for information on the Filipino Guerrilla forces I found a reference on google books to the use of a Bren Carrier by American troops in the Philippines. It is in the book ‘American Guerrilla: The Forgotten Heroics of Russell W. Volckmann” by Mike Guardia. It appears on pages 30 and 31. A ship carrying Canadian Army Vehicles, including Bren Gun Carriers, for Canadian troops in Hong Kong was diverted to Manila in late 1941.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=E-1V...page&q&f=false

John,

Thanks for reviving this topic (I merged your posting with the older existing thread).

Makes you wonder what the true story is behind that LP2 carrier in Belgium - if only it could tell!

Hanno

Possibly a simple explanation to this. It is known that NZ supplied some of their LP2 Carriers to US Forces for use up in the Islands, but it is recorded according to a NZ military historian, that 10 Carriers went to the Free French ........... now in 1940, the Free French were recognised by Tahiti, so maybe these Carriers went there as equipment for those defending the island. As it was the Japs did not venture on Tahiti. This is where it was supposed to have been found ........... now the search will be on for the other nine!

Read the #16 post from Jeff Plowman here, and on the attached link;
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208...on+Guadalcanal

Richard, Guess who sent Jeff the picture?

At least this is what I sent Jeff. I assume he then went to Archives NZ for a better copy.
I note that most of the tools are missing and that the bins are all padlocked.

Lynn,
Is was not the picture that I was referring to, it was this quote from Jeff:

"No its definitely an NZ LP2 or LP2A as supplied to the US Marine Corps. We sold about 33 to them of which 10 went to the Free French."

So it looks as though it is a strong possibility that the Carrier got to the island of Tahiti as defence. Further research needed.

The Free French had a submarine on its way to Tahiti as well. Submarine disappeared after leaving Panama canal, but that is another story.

cheers Richard

US Carriers
 

Hanno et al

Ref the pic of the US Carrier with the no. 92843 USA...could this number be the UK census number at the time of building ? The number fits Ford Contract S/M 1131 for Universial Carriers...

Just a thought !

Roddy

Honiara LP2/LP2A carrier
 

Hi all,

I was in Honiara last year with RAMSI and I checked this carrier out. It is at the Betekama Museum/mission.

From what I recall the data plates were gone and unfortunately I didn't check out the rear bulkhead as Tony said. The thing is full of 155mm or similar sized barrels and I was a bit reluctant to go climbing into it.

As Tony also said the tracks on the Australian carriers and NZ carriers are fitted in different directions. The tracks on this carrier are fitted in the same direction as my Australian LP2A carrier. That is, looking at the front of this carrier, the centre strip of the steel track is lower than the strips on the outside, giving a 'V' shape to the track profile. I think I'm right when I say the NZ carriers have the tracks around the other way and the profile of the track is almost like an inverted 'V'.

If you look at the tracks of the carrier in the picture that Lynn sent to Jeff, they have the 'V' shape looking from the rear, so when viewed from the front will give the inverted 'V' appearance, which is what I'd expect from a NZ carrier.

Not sure if I am making sense there, but hopefully so.... and that's assuming the tracks on this one haven't been removed and refitted, and that my Australian one is correct!

I'll see if I can find some more photos of this carrier that I took.

I reckon it is a Kiwi carrier
 

NZ had a brigade on New Caledonia in the mid war, and another on Fiji. They took their carrier platoons there including LP2 NZ and English 3" Mortar carriers. These were all returned to NZ.

After the soul searching following the simultaneous Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour, Hong Kong and Malaya, NZ agreed to leave the 2 NZ Division in North Africa while USA agreed to send troops to NZ to help defend NZ, and also complete their training here.

1 Div USMC had only 6 weeks in NZ before racing to take Guadalcanal in the Solomons before the Japanese completed the new airfield there. 2 Div USMC landed there too, and it took six months to finally subdue the Japanese who were reinforced by sea almost nightly!

The two NZ brigades were withdrawn to NZ and formed the 3 NZ Div who then moved to Guadalcanal and trained in amphibious warfare. Three brigade level actions followed with the capture of Japanese held Vella Lavella, Mono Island and Green Islands.
By this time the carriers had been left on Guadalcanal and the carrier platoons worked on foot.

The garrisons on Fiji and New Caledonia were replaced by US troops.

(We have just commemorated the 2 Marine Div practice landings at Mahia NZ in 1943 prior to the Tarawa landings, so I did a lot of research on USMC and NZ ops in the Pacific!)

Rob

Rob, and Darryl, don't the Aussie carriers have the I.D. plate above the instrument panel, and the Kiwi ones are on the right front guard? (where are the holes?)
It must be easy enough to identify an Aussie build or a Kiwi build without relying on the way the track is fitted.
I'm more knowledgeable about riveted carriers, than welded ones. Correct me if I have that wrong.
Richard, the story of the sub sounds interesting.
What Rob means by "we have just commemorated" is that he organised the event, so, Rob, How about a run down on the "Marines at Mahia" event?