Canadair Sabre
 

Hi Canadian members,
Bought this puppy home a while back and am giving it a well overdue clean up and polish.
Built in Canada, under lic by Canadair, sold to South Africa where it saw service up to the 1970's.
Camo is South African, post Korea. That's coming off!

The jet is a Canadair CL13b or F 86E in American and am seeking a manual for it.

Hanno, I know it's not a CMP but it is Canadian, has wheels and is green and brown :salute:

Wayne, great find!

Will this be a static display or will you make it fly again?

The Sabre is favourite jet fighter. When reading up on it I learned the Canadair version differed a lot from the American built one.

Hanno

Hi Hanno,

And the Australian license built CAC (Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation) Sabre jet differed even more from the American version with its Roll Royce
Avon powerplant and 2 x 30 mm cannon armament in lieu of 6 x .50 caliber MGs on the earlier US F86F model.

Most noticeable, when viewed from head on, is the wider front fuselage and air intake to accommodate the larger RR engine.

I have been lucky to have seen that CAC version fly at Avalon Airshow here in Australia a while back.
Still impressive even after 60 years.

Cheers,

Just awesome !!!! Cheers Brian

Sabre
 

did you get the Log Books?

Photos of CAC F86 Sabre Jet
 

Good Day All,

These photos may be of some interest to show the difference between the US and Australian built F86 Sabre jets.

The photo of the Sabre jet on the ground was taken at the Moorabbin Air Museum in the early 90's.

The photo of the F86 on the pylon was taken at Raymond Terrace NSW also in the early 90's. Since then, in 2013 it has been removed to Williamstown for restoration for display at Fighter World.

Both show the single gun ports in the nacelle for the 30 mm Aden cannon as used in the CAC built aircraft and the more substantial nacelle and intake area to accommodate the RR Avon engine.

My apologies for the poor quality scans from 35mm film photos. I thought I had some more taken at Avalon Air show but cannot put my finger on them just yet.

Cheers,

Does it have a radio in it? I have an ARC 502 that came out of a Canadian Sabre jet if you're interested.

Canadair
 

Hi Hanno, pretty much a static display only, guys who fly old jets have short life spans and expensive parachutes.

The Sabre has been on my list since I saw a few old CAC's back in the 80's and one in Malaysia I enquired about in 1996, North of Johor.
(Gilla Gilla bali kampong Ang mo)

The Canadair Sabre was a later product after the NAA Sabre which was still a very good fighter from what I have read.

As Jacques has stated the Australian CAC version is very different, wider, longer, faster, better guns and most panels are not interchangeable with the F86.

The Canadair Sabre also differs from the NAA F 86 but the panels are interchangeable, wings are kind of the same :D

The hydraulic system is a nightmare and I need a manual to lock the front wheel in the down position, no safety bolt like the NNA Sabre.

No log books Frank, I believe they may be in New Zealand.

Hi David, This is the radio compartment, the last radio (Fusch?) tray can be seen, ex SAAF.

Vintage Wings
 

You will be in rare company with a Sabre.

Mr Michael Potter started and grew a company named COGNOS that IBM bought out for a couple billion dollars. After paying for his divorce, he found himself literally swimming in cash and a love of airplanes. Every one of his aircraft has Canadian service or very strong connections to Canadian aviation. His Vintage Wings Collection is based at the Gatineau, Quebec airport. The clever part of his operation - every aircraft is its own legal corporation. If one plane needs to be sold, it can be wrapped up neatly and cleanly. Similarly, if one goes down or there is an insurance claim. Only that entreprise is effected.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/en-ca/home.aspx

They operate(d) Hawk One which is a Sabre. It is for sale. Maybe as it is being sold, copies of its documentation can be negotiated.

http://rcafassociation.ca/heritage/history/hawk-one/

Mr Potter
 

Gents, i flew with Mr Potter on a demo flight once .He let me do a few aileron and barrel rolls and other fun antics in a Harvard . He is a true Canadian patriot . He is devoted and addicted to Canadian military aviation history. He reveres ( and honours ) our Vets . My kinda guy. He did have success in business and it is all to his honour to hang around with mere mortals like me . A good friend of mine ( Ex Snowbird ) was involved in the Sabre program at Vintage Wings and it is a very ( extremely ) expensive crate to operate . Per Ardua Ad Astra .

Sabre
 

go after the log books , that way the bird has a chance to get back in the air in the future,

What was the relationship between the 30 mm Aden cannon used in the Sabre to the 30 mm Rarden canon used in the CVR(T) vehicles? Is one a genesis of the other?

Sabre manuals
 

Did you find the manual you were looking for?

I was plane nuts long before I was MV nuts so I'm loving the Sabre and still hang around our Aviation Museum as much as possible.

Lech is a great resource at our local Alberta Aviation Museum and he can be reached here. https://www.albertaaviationmuseum.com/contact-us/

The MVPA sets up there at least once a year so asking for help with info or a manual for a Canadian Sabre shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not saying he can help but if anyone can, he can.

Thanks for sharing it.

Now i understand it all. We sold used Canadair Sabres to Australia in the 50- 60’s and now we buy used F-18’s from them 50-60 years later. Makes sense now . Does it ?

Wayne.

There was a company (I think in New Brunswick, Canada - possibly Moncton) that acquired the majority of surplus Canadian made Sabres still held in Canada decades ago. I have seen photos of their compound full of the Sabres. The company in question had a contract with the US Air Force to provide them with target drones.

The planes were refurbished to full flight capability with the addition of drone control equipment. As the planes were needed by USAAF, pilots would pick them up and fly them down to whatever base in the States. The base would then send them out over the missle range to be blown out of the sky while following a slow, steady flight path.

Its a long shot but that company might have parts sitting around if anyone can ID them.

David

Australian built CAC version
 

As mentioned earlier our Sabres were a much enhanced version of the original design. I've interviewed some of the engineers and designers who worked on the drawings at Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation and they told me about the incredible amount of re-engineering it took to fit the larger R-R Avon engine.

We did not buy any of the old Canadian ones; all ours were newly built here.

Attached is a frame grab from a video I shot back in 2013 of the RAAF owned Temora Aviation Museum restored and operated Sabre.

Camera aircraft was a Caribou going absolutely flat knacker with five of us in the back (all with lanyards). The Sabre was wallowing around with full flap out flown skilfully by RAAF pilot 'Simmo'.

The Sabre is fitted with a smoke system for displays. It is currently grounded because Martin-Baker are no longer supporting the ejection seat which had been fitted by TAM.

sabre
 

Hi Dave, I do have a digital copy of the North American F 86 but am still looking for a Canadair Manual as the two aircraft do vary in several areas. I will try your link with thanks.

Hi Terry,
Thanks for the link, great looking aircraft! Im on to it. :salute:

Thanks David for the information, long shot or not, worth a go.

Hi Keith, Great photo, looks like it's heavy under brakes. The paint job is very hot rod and looks brilliant. I have included a pic of the ejector seat, bare bones with the bang bits removed.

The nose wheel is made by BF Goodrich and has a new matching tyre.

The canopy is suffering from crazing and the rubber needs touching up in areas but it is starting to look better without the camo.

I have also included a shot from a manual of the panels that I need to find or make.

Wayne.

If you look up “Flight Systems Sabres” you will find the reference to the Moncton, New Brunswick source of Sabres. Flight Systems had quite a supply of Canadian Sabres when the USAF switched to newer model drones. Who knows what might turn up.

David

Wayne's Wonder Bus?
 

Wayne,

What's happening to WWB??

Has the Sabre nudged the bus sideways in the workshed?

Nice find, nice challenge you have there. Yours must be about the only Canadian Sabre in Oz.

Mike

Wwb
 

Hi Mike, The Chev still has pride of place in the shed and is progressing slowly.
This Canadair Sabre is probably the only one down here but I'd love to be wrong. Quite a few CAC built ones are still around, mostly in museums.
There appear to be more Mig 15 and 17s here than the Sabre.

update
 

I have emailed my fingers off to museums all over the world, got 2 replies.
There are several part F86's in New Zealand but the owner has not responded. Probably still mad about that underarm episode, just let it go fellas.

Found some small bits and still pulling the camo off during quite times.

Added a second aircraft, as one does, 1960 105e.
Have all the parts for this one but the invisibility booster is faulty. :D

Disk brakes on a 105e ? Or is that part of the flying option pack ?

David

Hi Wayne

Yours may be a Canadair Sabre Mk 6, the best sabre. Sold directly to the SAAF. Does your have a number in evidence? There are lots of photos of SA Sabres.

http://www.saairforce.co.za/gallery-and-media/49/sabre

http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airf...13b-sabre-mk-6

They had quite the rate of incidents: "Mechanic sucked into intake during engine ground-run."
http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airf...-summaries/226

and
Attachment 103224

http://wildaviation.com/cms/images/s...re/SABRE_2.JPG

I have a Royal Air Force "Pilot's Notes for Sabre Mk. 4" if you're interested.

In RAF service, it was also called the Sabre F.4.

regards
Darrell

Crown Assets here in Ottawa have been selling off Orenda engines to suit the Sabre. Today's listing is at https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?...1&sf=ferm-clos I've no idea why the National Research Council have been keeping low time engines to study for so long after the type stopped having a known use.....
Two previous sales took in 5000 and 13000 (Canadian) dollars.

F86e
 

Hi David, disc brakes are required to pull it up on my short driveway/runway. The engine may possibly have a bit more thrust than the standard 997.

Hi Darrell, this aircraft is the last one (I have been informed) produced by Canada, serial plates are still in place, SAAF number 383.

The plane spotters out there will know this aircraft has had a long and sad story of neglect.

Hi Grant, The Orenda is the engine of choice for the Sabres still airworthy. There are a pile of engines sitting at a South Africa airfield, outside of course.

Regards,
Wayne.

Match the camo, if you've left any.