I say I'm with Pete and the whole of the Oxford LRDG, you'll get the Ballards too and everyone we know, but; they are all MV or historical people so might reasonably expect to have a similar mind set.

In fairness then I think asking the question here will get a skewed but concerned and uniform response since it is likely the gathered UK people will be of a single mind because of their specialist interest and the broader knowledge that stems from it.

As I have previously mentioned, GWB did ask me at one Beltring, probably the last ten quid jobbie, why everyone he spoke to was dead set against, but the govt seemed hell bent on full membership with all that brings. I had no answer.

Many vets I meet, and they'll tell you at Overlord Geoff, whatever did they fight a war for ? We now have the Fourth Reich.

I am very suspicious that the govt view is that so many vets are not around now to protest severely and sound the voice of sensibility that the larger mass of population either has been soaked in official line propaganda or couldn't care less so long as its pub on Friday and football on Saturday.

The apathy about the interminable euro political dross is a complete yawn to the man in the street and rates along with Vogon Constructor Captain's Poetry for boredom. This is insidious and extremely dangerous as it will go through by default.

I am extremely nervous about political discussions in these specialist forums, it is just a load of wasted ones and noughts ordure for the world at large and could lead to some very heated arguments; for this reason I am also acutely aware that the terms of my Ham radio license make it illegal for any discussion of sex, religion or politics, this is a common world-wide trait too, for good reason.

Pete has articulated the situation precisely and I would not add or detract anything from that.

You will note the URL added to my signature and all I can say is that UK voters should take a moment to review the mass of information therein and remember that Euro elections are not the UK style first past the post scenarios but true proportional representation, go and vote.

I can also tell you that at this later stage of life, I have actually paid money and am a card carrying member of a political party, you figure it out; nuff said.

Here's a contentious point, IF we need to join something, then why not become the 51st US State, we do more trade with N America than the EU, we speak the same language (very nearly) and have been in a very close political alliance for a very long time, when the sharp intake of breath subsides, just think on a moment.

Don't get me started Geoff, thankfully its 02:18 and after holding the SMVT meeting tonight in my new-found capacity, I am a bit tired, however, after touching the exposed nerve Mr.Ball-Spinning, for which I am most grateful, this will need another mug of (hot) tea and a ciggy before the sandman comes.

Yours, simmering,

R.