Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gosling
Hi everyone,
I bought this flag at an antique show this week and cannot identify it. Its a red ensign with the coat of arms in the picture. Its a good size 10 feet by 4. I've looked on the internet but haven't found it,please help!!!!!
James
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Interesting...James ..You may have a homemade family flag..
The latin//parva subincenti..may translate roughly to Small blessings or insentives ,maye prayers to a saint of holy person..female.maybe Mother Mary..
The windmill in the center may have a Dutch connection..but definately canadian ..
The Crown design may give you a time frame..It is a Tudor design but according to this it can be loosely used,..
Good luck with your search..but I believe it is a personal,one of and kind family flag..
All Tudor regalia was destroyed after the English Civil War, but details of the crowns are known from seals, coins etc. The 1901 heraldic crown is not like either of the crowns of Henry VII. A crown that appears to be a cross between these two was used on the 1870 flags of Newfoundland. The crown of Henry VIII is a little more like the 1901 heraldic crown.
David Prothero, 14 September 2004
The changed shape of crowns on flags after the accession of Edward VII in 1901 was the result of standardising the design. I imagine that the domed crown was chosen because it was the one the King preferred. There seems no reason for the change after 1952, except that it was the choice of the Queen. If the change was intended to have some symbolic significance, the meaning should have been obvious, or the significance of the new shape should have been promulgated. Shortly after I joined the Navy in 1952, badges were being changed for those having the new crown, but no explanation or reason for the change was announced. A new Royal Cypher is designed at the beginning of each new reign, and is approved by the sovereign before becoming official. Perhaps the appearance of the crown emblem that will be used during the reign is part of that process?
David Prothero, 30 September 2000
T.F. Mills wrote, "Why he [Edward VII] chose the Tudor design I don't know, but it has been suggested that he thought it looked more "imperial", but unless David can dig up something from the PRO I guess we will never know.
In response: All that I dug up was in an extract from 'The English Regalia' by Cyril Davenport, which is reproduced in A.C. Fox-Davies' 'A Complete Guide to Heraldry':
"St Edward's crown is the crown supposed to be heraldically represented when for State or official purposes the crown is represented over the Royal Arms or other insignia. In this the fleurs-de-lis upon the rim are only half fleurs-de-lis. This detail is scrupulously adhered to, but during the reign of Queen Victoria many of the other details were very much 'at the mercy' of the artist. Soon after the accession of King Edward VII the matter was brought under consideration, and the opportunity afforded by the issue of a War Office Sealed Pattern of the Royal Crown and Cypher for use in the army was taken advantage of to notify his Majesty's pleasure, that for official purposes the Royal Crown should be as shown in this image, which is a reproduction of the War Office Sealed Pattern already mentioned. It should be noted that whilst the cap of the real crown is of purple velvet, the cap of the heraldic crown is always represented as of crimson"
There are no PRO document titles that appear to be relevant, though the title is not always a good guide to all the contents of a document. Here is the Kew National Archives search facility. If anyone wants to browse and finds an interesting document name, I will investigate.
David Prothero, 14 September 2004
I do not think that there is any specific requirement to change the crown on a flag. Flags designed since 1953 have a St Edward's crown (unless they are Scottish); flags designed before 1953 continued with the existing Tudor crown until they needed replacing. The design of crown then used on the replacement flag is a matter of choice. There is nothing to say that the replacement of a 'pre-1953 flag' must have a St Edward's crown. It can be made to the original pattern with a Tudor crown, or have a St Edward's crown.
David Prothero, 1 March 2005