Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Alexander
Is there any reference for the vehicle numbers as found on the doors of CMP's, etc that stayed in Canada during / after the SWW? (The overseas serials are well documented.)
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NOTE: Please use "WWII" not the revisonist "SWW" as some people are now doing. Most people do not know what the new abbreviation "SWW" refers to. I had to ask about a month ago and I have been collecting WWII stuff for about 50 years! World War II has been abbreviated as "WWII" for over 70 years. Likewise for WWI.
I have been studying the Canadian military vehicles markings for about 35-years.
The numbering systems used on military vehicles in Canada (and sometimes seen overseas e.g. on Rams with both D.N.D. and W.D. numbers showing or on an RCAF HUP) in WWII were called D.N.D. numbers. There were two forms - OLD and NEW. It is complicated and the following explains only the basics.
OLD D.N.D. NUMBER SYSTEM
Old D.N.D. Numbers were painted in flat white sold numbers (no webs as appear on stencils) and were 1-1/2" high. They used dashes. There may be versions with the stencil webs, especially if repainted before the end of 1942.
e.g. 42-1-5561 or 42-123
This decodes as follows:
42 = year vehicle was taken into service, usually the year it was made, however a vehicle made in late 1941 for example could have a 42 number if it was not taken into the sytem until early 1942.
-1- = means it was NOT an R.C.A.S.C. vehicle If the -1- is absent, then it was an R.C.A.S.C. vehicle.
5561 = 5,561st vehicle taken on strength that year. Started at # 1. This one happened to be my Dad's Harley-Davidson WLC while overseas in Newfoundland in 1942.
In Saskatchewan in the 1970s I was finding ex-military vehicles with original markings still showing or where I uncovered them by careful scraping as these early markings were painted over. Early vehicles such as Cab 11 DND / CMP trucks and a some early 1942 jeeps had the unit name in abbrviated title in white above the D.N.D. number. e.g. "HAL RIF" [i.e. Halifax Rifles] was on one of my F8 trucks when found (under later green paint). Another F-8 I found had "HQ 11 CDN INF BDE" as I recall clearly visible as the later paint had eroded. Mickey Zwack in Prince Albert ended up with that one as I recall.
No MVs have been seen by me in person or in photos with "Old D.N.D. Numbers" starting with 43 but many 1943 vehicles have been seen (and I have owned several) with the "New D.N.D. Number System" (below)
NEW D.N.D. NUMBER SYSTEM
These numbers were also stencilled in white, about 2" high, and the stenciels left webs (gaps where strips linked portions of the numbers). Various fonts were used.
This system appears to have come into use at the beginning of 1943 and remained in use until the last of the WWII vehicles left the military - as far as I know the last was a 15-Cwt MACH KL out of CFB Chilliwack in the early 1970s. Newly accepted vehicles were assigned these numbers. Vehicles already in the system had numberes allocated and appliced by the holding units. There was confusion of course. There is NOT, repeat NOT, a correlation between the old and new numbers. Proof was found in the Archives of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada Museum and Archives when I was Curator there in the form of documents showing old and new DND Numebrs for vehicles. e.g.
For the following Ford F8 Cab 12 trucks on issue to the 2nd Bn Seaforth of C in Vancouver, BC
OLD DND No._____NEW DND No.
42-1-32105______Z.51-105
42-1-3513_______Z.51-106
42-1.3414_______Z.51-107
42-1-3515_______Z.51-108 SEEMS to be a pattern but is is a local blip
42-1-3523_______Z.51-109
42-1-3562_______Z.51-110
42-1-3567_______Z.50-973 Pattern really broken
42-1-3587_______Z.51-111
Only very rarely one can find old army documents such as an inspection repport or accident report that will give more information. (Inspection Report from Seaforth Highlanders of Canada Museum and Archives) e.g.
" Ford 8 cwt Personnel" D.N.D. Reg. No. 42-1-3562 (later renumbered Z.51-110) Chassis Mo. 21570 Engine No. 2G-46393F Licence N.D. 39K (note the licence number changed each year until about 1970).
Under the "New D.N.D. Number" system, R.C.A.S.C. held vehicles ceased to be a separate listing and were now part of the "B" vehicle census (basically softskins as opposed to armour which were "A" vehicles).
A Canadian Army Manual (1 July 1944) explains something of the "New D.N.D. Number" system.
"Vehicles other than motorcycles. will be numbered consecutively irrespective of type or year of issue commencing with D.N.D. number 50-001." In reality as the stencil sets did not have a dash, a period was used.
"Motorcycles will be numbered consecutively irrespective of type or year of issue commencing with D.N.D. number 2-001."
Vehicles brought back to Canada after WWII were renumbered from the British WD number system to the "New D.N.D. number syste,. Thus the "Crerar Trailer" in the Canadian War Museum has a new D.N.D. number. If they were to carefully sand down they should find the original W.D. number. CX____________. The Staghound Armoured Cars were also renumbered.
On 1942 (including Willys W-LU 440-M-PERS-1 ("jeeps" with a small "j") and earlier vehicles one SHOULD find both sets of numbers. On jeeps it was usually applied over the rear wheelwells, rarely on the sides of the hood (bonnet for our UK readers), rarely on the centre of the windshield panel and occasionally on the sides under the doorwells (probably post-war in 1950s).
The RCAF had their own variation - of course! They had the 20,000 and 30,000 number rnages as I recall. They also used a two letter code above the new D.N.D. number. This was usually the first and last letters of the station's name e.g. CX for Comox For two word names they might use the first letter of each word e.g. SI for Sea Island.
As well one has the identifying letters for the category of vehicle e.g. Z for truck, M for Motor Car which system was used for both number systems, as well as overseas. There are confusing examples and changes e.g. easrly categories of Dragoon, Van (NOT a sigs van as we would think today but a typical 15 Cwt for example where cargo box can have a FLAT tarp but no bows to hold tarp up high!) and a new categaory part way through the war "P" for Amphibious (Ford GPA and DUKW but not Duplex-Drive Shermans).
CANADIAN ARMY REGISTRATION NUMBER SYSTEM
About 1951 the Canadian Army Registration Number (CAR) was introduced for NEW vehicles. 1951 Willys M38 jeeps were numbered 51-______. 1952 Ford M38CDN were numbered 52-3_____. There was a system.
1/4 ton = 30,000
3/4 ton = 40,000
2-1/2 ton = 50,000
trailer = 70,000
Later on, by 1967, they had given up on the broad 10,000 number batch groupings. Old number relmained in use but new numbers appear to be more random, using unallocated numbers.
After unifcation this number continued but was renamed
Canadian Forces Registration Number (CFR). About 1970 it ceased to be applied to the outsides of vehicles and the last five digits were then applied to the new DND (later CANADA) licence plates with peel and stick decals e.g. my old M100CDN 1/4 ton trailer 53-70216 had licence 70216. On many vehicles the full CFR number was marked inside the cab roof or on the dash, often in peel and stick white numbers. These were later painted over before 1986 but could still be read.