Quote:
Originally posted by Pete Ashby
Mike
Difficult question you pose here.
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Yes it is.
Pete and the others make some very considered and valid points.
Lets take the picture Mike posted which came from me some time ago, there is a story attached. The German officer here, pictured at Beltring, is the only one actually entitled to wear the uniform and did serve in the SS for the last two weeks of WWII as a teenager I understand. When I have seen him in the arena he does take it almost too far and will overtly turn away from, and shun any allied person or vehicle as if they are non-existent.
He also nailed the coffin on us ever using Southsea Common again being unwittingly cajoled by the press to make a stiff-arm salute for the camera man who had cunningly lined-up the shot from a crouch with the huge war memorial there, being about half the height of Nelson's Column, as a backdrop; took the whole front page the next day.
What with this and tank track marks on the green sward of the common which the long-standing lady councillors want to look over 365 days a year in pristine condition from their sea-front properties, it was a bit of a foregone conclusion. Plus, a girly reporter who found a genuine Min of Inf. publication on a stall which loosely detailed home made weapons and booby traps from domestic items and published in the days of a real invasion threat. The next day the headline read:
"DEATH BOOK ON SALE AT MILITARY RALLY."
So, I have some observations, I don't know the answers and I'm not into re-enactment at all, DPM jacket and jeans me, cheap and convenient and I'm a scruffy git anyway, but it seems fair that if you can wear allied, Russsian, Japanese or whatever then German should be allowed too.
But.
I am aware that in continental Europe a Wehrmacht or any WWII German uniform is the fastest way to prison going, and I am still embarrassed and ashamed at the offence probably taken by continental visitors to be met at Beltring and marshalled in by accurately dressed and well armed SS troops, I am sure it upset my Dutch friend wether he admits it or not.
Should we skew history and ban German uniforms ? I don't know.
Taking the point about Hawaiian shirt dressing, the really serious Wehrmacht vehicle restorers and owners do that here intentionally to make an obvious detachment as far as possible away from any form of uniform-wearing re-enactment. For several years these people who have spent, in some cases actually millions, on restoring Wehrmacht vehicles were stopped at the Beltring arena entrance and asked to vacate their vehicles so the re-enactment groups could drive them around for a better spectacle. This was done in all seriousness and the arena staff were most taken aback at the violent response from the owners as they really couldn't see a problem with it.
Now do you ban uniforms for what they stand for, which might be unsafe or because of the attraction of the lunatic fringe who now have an acceptable front to satisfy some darker desires?
The MVT ban SS uniforms/insignia because of a previous problem with some vets, however we have to recognise that generally the SS were highly disciplined, well-trained and excellently commanded fighting units that were no easy push-over, in fact the SS title was dropped onto a lot of ordinary Wehrmacht as the war progressed as a spur to greater efforts it seems.
Of course we'd all cite the brutality of the SS in the Russian campaign, however, its worth taking a moment to look at our allies on the other side there as well, and maybe their conduct thereafter perhaps. Leading historians will put old Uncle Joe Stalin well above Mr.Schickelgruber in the evil stakes.
And what of the western allies, are we all shining white too or is it easy for the victors perhaps to expose all the misdemeanours of the vanquished but hide their own problems. We didn't have even one psycopath in all the armies ? Not one really brutal NCO didn't get a "inadvertent" 7.6962mm hole entering from behind in the Normandy meleé instead of a "correct" 7.92mm one in the front? No skeletons lurking in the dusty basement of Whitehall under a 100yr rule that will certainly be lost/damaged by fire/water or inadvertently destroyed when say 2044 comes around?
Look, I'm not condoning or supporting any of it, just perhaps an exercise in food for thought, there are two sides to most everything.
The real concern with re-enactment and uniforms does seem to gravitate to German, and SS especially, there are virtually no non SS groups here and I don't know why, but here's the problem for the vehicle people. Get a small bunch of really lunatic, living it for real people, and we know they do exist, that manage to infiltrate a group and perpetrate some really henious act. The official axe will fall, the vehicles and shows will be off, bit like a Dunblane saga; it only takes one.
We will never again get to own and drive _traceable_, and/or road licensed military vehicles but the living it for real lunatic fringe will just go off into the woods and dress up again.
Now I blame Mike Kelly entirely for kicking another soap-box under my feet and I'll speak to you later, you Morris-Commercial addict you.
But, we really need to be pedantic about vehicle road-worthyness, especially as in England a lot of trucks fall between the stools and are exempt from the annual and rigid MoT test; I have seen some horrors turn up at shows on original tyres showing the cords through the cracks, perished flexible brake lines with bigger bumps than the Michelin man and dribbling brake fluid like a broken radiator re-enactment, to name but a few. When the woopsie happens and a bystander is hurt or killed, trying to justify to officialdom why we NEED an old army truck becomes very difficult. It sometimes keeps me awake at night.
Remember the French have just banned all private armour from their citizens, no carriers, Ferrets, Dingos, Lynx, Otters, it goes on doesn't it. Why ? I have no idea, not one has never been involved in any criminal activity or accident. Its depressing, they're a vocal member of the EU too and just across the water; think I'll keep my head down and not rock the boat.
Probably time someone young and energetic like Mr McSpool stood as a MEP, then we'd have an internal voice, think of the pay, expenses and free E Class Merc you'd get on the Euro gravy-train beano McSpool. Beats working for a living.
R.