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Old 11-07-07, 08:13
Colin Macgregor Stevens Colin Macgregor Stevens is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Richmond, BC, CANADA
Posts: 165
Default Pre-production DND pattern vehicles

As David Hayward mentioned the term "protoytpe has been bandied about too liberally. I feel prototype is the first one made. Then when limited batches were made those are either pilot or pre-production ... or test vehicles. Maybe someone would like to define the terms for us.

For many more photos of these early DND test vehicles see:
Colin Stevens' page on CMPs

As credentials I'll start off by saying that I have physically touched all three surviving Ford 15 Cwts, the Chevy 15 Cwt and the surviving Ford M-H half-track pre-war test 15 Cwt. Most of the photos in this discussion came through me e.g. the one of the rear of the Ford 15 Cwt is from my Dad's album and he is standing next to the truck. When I told him it was a "prototype" Ford 15 Cwt he laughed - for to him it was just a truck. I pointed out the special hooded headlights.

Picture won't reproduce here but is on my web page on CMPs. I still have the original large print of my Dad's.

Lincoln and Welland Regt on right at Niagara on the Lake 50 Mile March 1941 January 5. Left to right Driver B____; Sgt. Russ Trelford and Lieut. A. H. ("Pete") Stevens. This training is mentioned on p.100 of the History of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment. "On 6th January, six platoons started out independently on three-day schemes in which each was to practice tactics, marching, and the technique of billeting. Six more platoons set out on the 8th.

FORD
Prototype - Pictured in Bill Gregg's book BLUEPRINT FOR VICTORY pp. 6-10 with 1937 Ontario licence plate DEALER 856 M [Note: Licence plates usually changed each year.] This one is NOT known to have survived.


Here are the Ford limited production types. It has been estimated that 6 or 8 were made. Three of these survive.
1. Dr. Bill Gregg's restored, went to the RCA Musuem in CFB Shilo in 1985 (I did the appraisal). I have photos but none on my web site yet.
2. Gary Moonie has one, partly restored in BC. Old photo from Blueprint For Victory.

3. The Canadian War Museum has one partial one (cab and cowl) in Ottawa. Found by Jim Fraser of Arnprior in the CFB Petawawa area apparently.


Six of these early Fords are shown at Dundurn Camp c. 1940 (Photo from Museum of the Royal Westminster Regiment)



CHEVROLET
Albert Siemons photo.
Hard and soft cab types appear in old photos. I was offered the only known survivor for $1,000 years ago (1990s) by Albert Siemons in Kelowna, BC but I turned it down as I did not have the resources to care for it and felt that it HAD to stay in Canada - so I told the Canadian War Museum about it and they acquired it. As of last November (2006) it was in the CWM restoration shop awaiting attention (in company with a UC 2 Pr Equipped and Panther tank among others. David Hayward was able to trace its history - and as CWM has done nothing with it in a decade -- I kind of wish I had acquired it!

At least one (and probably only 1) went overseas to England with the 1st Canadian Division in late 1939 and it appears in several photos. The Seaforth photo shows the DND number painted on the side of the vehicle hood (bonnet) , foward of the doors and it is Z 38-1-10
I suspect that this is the same truck that shows a partial WD number on the hood in another close-up photo. It would likely have been assigned a WD number.
By the way the photo identified in the forum earlier as being taken in "Nova Scotia" is I believe taken onf 1 Cdn Division in Aldershot ENGLAND (someone probably saw Aldershot and assumed it was the Canadian one). One of the these Chevy trucks shows up in the background of several phttos on parade and a route march.

The Westmintser Regiment used some of these pre-war Fords in B.C. Two show up in their photo (attibuted to another regiment above in this forum) but I got this photo from the Museum of the Westmintser Regt and the licence plates are British Columbia so I think it is them in the photo. I think its extremely likey (the odds are about 1 in 2 or 1 in 6 at the most) that the truck now at CWM is one of the two in this photo. Sadly the DND numbers are not legible in the photo.


1936 Ford M-H HALF-TRACK "JEEP"
One of these survives. Shown in BLUEPRINT FOR VICTORY p. 27, this was found by Phil Gravelle and had DND number 36-1-106. It has now been restored and is on display at the Canadian War Museum, though without the DND number on the side, and without the four 18 Pr. Limber boxes that were used on the rear deck. The RCA called these vehicles "Jeeps" (with a capital J) way back in 1936-37 (I have ample evidence of this - and it is pretty obvious they got the name from the character Jeep in the Popeye cartoon strip who came in a mystery box, could disappear and reappear anywhere.

By the way, do not confuse it with the prototype one of a kind Willys jeep half-track which is owned by Fred Smith near Birmingham, England. I have driven that one as well as most of his other protoytpe and pre-production jeeps and it is neat, but it is a beast to drive!

Then there is the Dodge CMP prototpe ... What's that you say? CMPs were made by Ford and Chevrolet! True, but Dodge made at least 1 protytpe Cab 13 15 Cwt. If you find it it is not a collector's or farmer's abomination so don't "fix" it. Note the DODGE name plate on the top of the grille and the spindly front wheel hubs. I have first dibs on it by the way! My late friend Bill Gregg mentioned it in his books but I found the war time photo! Here it is.


One request people - when you find a photo on the Internet etc. record WHERE you got it from! A whole bunch of my photos were used in the forum above, but people could not remember where they had gotten them from!

Enough for tonight ...



Colin Stevens, Mission BC
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Colin MacGregor Stevens, CD
Richmond, BC
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