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Old 04-02-15, 20:51
BCA BCA is offline
Brian Asbury
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 658
Default CAR/CFR numbers

Gaetan, You ask my opinion on CAR/CFR numbers. I use the term CFR (Canadian Forces Registration) number only because I think it was the later terminology for the CAR (Canadian Army Registration) number. I have accumulated data on 10 Willys M38's used by Canada, 96 M38CDN for which only the CFR is available (observing frames or from ownership papers or from historical photographs), and 257 Ford M38CDN for which the Ford serial number is known (from existing data plates or from ownership paperwork). From this base I have made my conclusions.
I have seen no official paperwork that describes the allotment or procedure for assigning CFR's, but I conclude that:
1. There were 2 blocks of 5-digit CFR numbers allotted for M38CDN and continuing to M38A1CDN vehicles: The first block is 3XXXX starting with 30001. This block accounts for most M38CDN (to at least 32138) and 1953 M38A1CDN vehicles (observed to cover a range of at least 32181-32908).
The second block is 33XXX. Often seen on Willys M38 CDN dated 10-51 or in historical photos (often Germany early 1960's) as well as a few M38A1CDN Willys and Fords.
All known 1951-1953 jeeps CFR's fall into either one of these 2 blocks.
2. The date prefix only refers to the year that the CFR was actually assigned to a vehicle. In other words there will never be both a 51-30001 and a 52-30001.
Stamping Procedures: The common place to find a CFR is on the top left frame rail between the bumper and the grill. There are examples of frame-stamped CFR's stamped for 1951, 1952 and 1953. However, based on my database there is no known examples of a Ford M38CDN with a CFR stamped on the frame CFR between serial F-100001 and F-100300. This is based on 50 known M38's in this range, many of which I have closely examined or discussed in detail with the owner. Instead the frame is either blank or has a very small inspector's stamp: the only source of a CFR in this range has been from surviving decals or ownership papers. There may be a relationship between the lack of stamped CFR's and the early E-20 LV7 639 ARMY contract which I can only pin down as having also extended to about F-100300.
I always expect the un-expected: During service or rebuilt programs it would have been so easy to switch data plates from one jeep to another. There are examples of serial plates over-stamped by someone during service. It is certain that collectors have mixed-and- matched good frames with good bodies+data plates. Many serial numbers or dates may have been mis-read due to dirt, paint or poor eyesight.
I am keen to hear from owners of loose souvenir M38 data plates. The delivered date, winch or non-winch, inspectors stamp and contract number (639 vs 742) is all good information that can help build the story of Canadian M38's, both Ford and Willys.
Any published, original source information is much needed: not just anecdotes about how someone at Ford or elsewhere said this, that or the- other-thing. The only solid evidence for Ford production is the previously- posted Ford 1952 year-end serial number report.
......... Brian
PS: Gaetan: So in your case I assume that sometime in late 1951 (October or later) a Canadian Army inspector, at some unknown army base, stamped your frame "30035" using a number from the pre-assigned batch. He prefixed it with "51", the year he stamped it. He moved on to the next jeep and probably another Willys and stamped it 51-30036. Eventually in February 1952, other inspectors, upon receiving Ford M38CDN's did not stamp the frames, but assigned CFR's as painted stencil's for about 300 vehicles, at which time they realized the wisdom of stamping the frames again. (the first documented "delivered date" for a Ford M38CDN is Feb.4 1952 for F-100006, so the CFR would have been assigned after that). Different inspectors may have been assigned different blocks of CFR's to use.

Last edited by BCA; 04-02-15 at 21:16. Reason: update
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