Cleaning steel brake pipes or tubes inside... how??

[sth65pac]

Hi All,

Years of standing still have taken their toll and I have to clean out all the steel brake pipes or tubes on my F15A. Some are clogged with gunk...

The brake fluid has become a very sticky substance and is more like a glue than a liquid. Metholated spirits (wood alcohol) is possibly a method to purge the pipes, but I am not keen on pouring it through a funnnel hour after hour to get an kind of good result .

Externally the pipes are in good condition as the Dubbo Air is very dry and it looks as though only one steel pipe will need replacement as it has pitted.

Does anyone have a method to clean the inside of brake pipes?????

Ian

[Keith Webb]

Euan has made new pipes for Chris' F15 brake as well as fuel. They even have the correct covering where necessary and are all double flared using all new material.

We worked using the old ones as patterns, then double checking bends through test-fitting.

Modern bundy tube is quite malleable.

I've heard because brake fluid absorbs moisture it can rust from the inside.

[Grant Bowker]

Almost everyone agrees that brakes need to be taken seriously. In that vein, if the pipes have begun to deteriorate they will continue. You need to decide if the fact that they haven't burst in the 60 years since the truck was built means that they won't fail while you are driving.
For replacement lines you have several choices. Standard lines of coated steel are cheaper, fairly easy to form but if the coating is damaged may be prone to rust. Stainless line is very rust resistant but usually is more difficult to form curves and flares. I've never seen the cunifer alloy lines but they have a reputation for for easy forming and very good rust resistance.
My thoughts are influenced by living in the road salt capital of Canada. I know I intend to replace the lines on my trucks as I get to the brake system because I don't trust myself to be able to clean the lines to 100% or trust the old lines not to fail when I need them most.
If you are confident of the strength of the line, consider plugging one end of the line and pouring in your choice of solvent (new brake fluid, brake cleaner, meths, etc) and letting it sit to soften the gunge. It might take more than one try but once there's even a small passage through the line time is your friend for the solvent action.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I'd try that aerosol brake cleaner then compressed air. If you do that a few times then use some brake fluid then compressed air it should get rid of the gunk.

[Bob McNeill]

Try cleaning the pipe using bowden cable, old pushbike brake cable, feed it in spin it in the drill, use it like a rifle pull thru. New pipe is safest.

[Howard]

Although I am not in a rust prone area, I intend to replace all brake pipe.
I just bought 2x 7 metre rolls of 1/4 'bundy' pipe & a couple of handfulls of flare nuts for around $190. This way I know it will be right!

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Ian - don't waste time and effort trying to restore those. Go new with either a brake shop or get Howard to make you a set.

Bob

[sth65pac]

Well:

Here are the pipes and as you can all now see the rear main and front chassis rail/ frame tubes are cactus.

Petrol cleans all the grease off them, but you have to be careful not to get it inside the tubes as it reacts with brake fluid... mind you the score is 1-3 with one pipe salvageable.

As you can see the rear main pipe was extremely pitted, and I managed to snap it on removal. It was good experience, as I was unsure if the pipes were pre-bent. It appears that by & large they are not except for a few tight radius's.

Having a 7/16 flare nut spanner will allow me to get the remaining unions undone. I feel like I am going backwards in destruct-a-tation, not forwards in restoration.

Howard; Fancy a weekend at the beach??? Bring your pipe, swaging tools, tube & family.. .

Ian

[sth65pac]

On the subject of brakes:

The 'upside' was that the master cylinder was in excellent shape, full of soft decomposed rubber which preserved the bore. A week of soaking in Methylated spirits (wood alcohol) and I managed to clean the goop out.

I used a piece of wooden dowel with a piece of Scotchbrite (scrubbie) to clean the bore to sparkling cast iron grey, and then lightly buffed it with 1200 grade wet & dry paper to remove any imperfections.... Anyone need the part number of the Ford Master Cylinder Overhaul kit in Oz???? See second picture.. one plastic bag says it all.

Keith would you be so kind as to add the Kit P/n to the spares list on MLU?

The bellcrank assembly was serviceable after I removed the dirt and cleaned the clevis pins.

More parts to be hung up & painted....

Ian

[Keith Webb]

Keith would you be so kind as to add the Kit P/n to the spares list on MLU?

I take the easy route and give master cylinders to a brake reco place who rebore and sleeve in stainless and return complete with a kit ready to use so I'm sorry but I don't have a kit number.

[sth65pac]

Keith.......

I meant in the Excel spreadsheet in parts sources and prices. I have added to the thread. For all the Aussies it was $30.00 for the kit. Which is an IBS brand KX4 kit..

I cannot see why you cant overhaul a Chev Master Cylinder??? Aren't they the same diameter cylinder?

I am sunburnt today, spent an hour or more in the place where the engine once lay cleaning away the mud and grease... There is real green paint there...

Oh and we need some pictures of Chris's F15 in the making....

Ian

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by sth65pac

I cannot see why you cant overhaul a Chev Master Cylinder??? Aren't they the same diameter cylinder?

Actually, it's quite easy to find the guts to overhaul a chev master cylinider. The problem comes when the interior is pitted, then you have to go the resleeve route or look for a replacement. Repalcements are rare since most 1-1/4 inch master cylinders were side mounted rather than the CMP base mount and most base mount master cylinders are 1 inch diameter (and easy to find in this size.

[sth65pac]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Actually, it's quite easy to find the guts to overhaul a chev master cylinder. The problem comes when the interior is pitted, then you have to go the re sleeve route or look for a replacement. Replacements are rare since most 1-1/4 inch master cylinders were side mounted rather than the CMP base mount and most base mount master cylinders are 1 inch diameter (and easy to find in this size.

So Grant,

Can you ream a 1" Master cylinder to an 1-1/4"? or Can you sleeve an 1-1/4 to an inch?

I agree the Chev M/c's are a side mount affair.. can I ream & re-sleeve them?
Ian

[Grant Bowker]

I'm sure a 1-1/4 inch cylinder could be sleeved to 1 inch, but why would you want to in the CMP context?
I'm not sure if both were from the same casting but they do have different part numbers cast into them. Without measuring to check, I'd be nervous taking 1/8 inch off each wall of the master cylinder.
I have seen someone make an adapter so that a side mount cylinder can be put in place of the CMP base mount type, no plans for this have been seen.

[sth65pac]

Grant,

I was thinking if you reamed a Chev Master Cylinder out to 1-3/8 and then sleeved it, that would be logical.. the strength is ok... if Chev M/c's are so hard to get then this is the logical step.. press in a SS sleeve and ream to 1-1/4"?
Ian

[Howard]

Originally Posted by sth65pac

...Howard; Fancy a weekend at the beach??? Bring your pipe, swaging tools, tube & family.. .
Ian

Ian,
Sounds good. But not before Corowa!
HH

[sth65pac]

Jeez Howard, the least you can do is drop by b4 Corowa... how am I going to drive there with no brakes .

Seriously, I cant see me getting my truck done in time.. (sad but true) so I will have to bring the mighty Nissan & Caravan...

Ian

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Ian - outsource and get a professional job. As an example I had the master and two wheel cylinders refurbished in December 2008.

Master - dismantle, clean, hone and polish bore and reassemble with new kit that included all rubbers and pistons. $104.30.

Wheel - same as above plus boring to accept stainless steel sleeve. Complete rebuild with insert, all rubbers and pistons - $119 each.

Back in January 2008 I had two brake lines made - $71.40.

Bob

[sth65pac]

Bob,

I have already overhauled the Master cylinder. The F15A is about my 34th vehicle so I am happy to take ideas, and techniques. I don't accept I know it all because I DON'T. Many people have great ideas here.. and hence I ask...

Yes I am getting brake-lines made.

As for the wheel cylinders: I will most likely buy new or hone & refurbish the oldies. This is the easy stuff. All the panel work is the hardest part for me..

I don't think I will make Corowa with a 'driveable vehicle' so I will have to just bring the caravan, camera, & a carton of beer.

Ian

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Ian - I hope you don't think I was trying to teach you how to suck eggs. However I have seen numerous "restoration" efforts that I call pensioner restorations, where cost cutting shortcuts have been utilised, especially in the brakes area. I posted the costs to demonstrate to the uninformed just how inexpensive a professional refurbishment is.

34 vehicles, most impressive. What have you done?

Bob

[Howard]

As I hinted on before, I have just had my master cylinder & front wheel cylinders tarted up. One wheel cylinder came apart quite easily & was in very good condition. The other wheel cylinder was a different story & I was unable to pull them apart without resorting to hammers & punches. The master cylinder looked VERY ORDINARY to say the least, so I boxed them all up & sent them to a contact in Orange.
The parts arrived in Orange last Thursday morning, and the job was completed by Friday Lunchtime.
Resleeved all cylinders & reassembled, manufacture 2x front brake hoses, total cost $300 including freight. I should add that I supplied the wheel cylinder kits (NOS). They had a kit for the master cylinder in stock!
Their service is excellent. When I get back to work on Monday I will post their contact details here.
I like to think that the more work you do to your own project, the more satisfaction with the final product. I have tried to farm out as little as possible, and therefore, am massively behind where I thought I would be right now. Tony (Ganmain Tony, that is) has pulled his truck apart and sent parts & pieces all over the state & is now ready to start assembly. He is miles in front of me, but has spent the money to get there. Different strokes for different folks.

[sth65pac]

I have completed overhaul of the Master Cylinder. Its about my 10th automotive one I think...

The brake pipes: I will weight cost VS swaging kit and tube and DIY. I don't like farming out jobs as I have had to accept a standard set by the person who did the job. As for some professional jobs, some are less than perfect and you end up re-doing them down the track. I can site many examples, but this is not the place.

To me, there is no urgency to my truck. I bought it with the intent of pleasure in restoration. I spent four hours making a new hasp for the F15A's tool box, what a joy, its like a new one!!

I appreciate all the concerns of safety, but this is not my first vehicle, (34th in fact) and I strongly agree with your statement Howard: "the more work you do to your own project, the more satisfaction with the final product". I have had three braking failures in three vehicles in 26years which were professionally repaired: Those failed systems were not done by myself. I was not watching/assisting repairs at the time.

If I learn something new I am better for it. If I just take my time, read the book and do it properly, I will be fine. No shortcuts, and do it once.

I am very mindful of age deterioration. I work in aviation and that is a daily issue. The techniques and ideas we all share is what makes MLU such a wonderful website:

On MLU I can ask a unique question without ridicule. That is truly a unique part of MLU I personally enjoy.

Ian

[Howard]

Originally Posted by Howard

...Their service is excellent. When I get back to work on Monday I will post their contact details here...

Contact Steven at Central Western Brake & Clutch. 02 6362 4077

[Howard]

Originally Posted by sth65pac

...On MLU I can ask a unique question without ridicule...Ian

Unless you suggest that a Chev is better than a Ford! (Or visa versa)

[Bob McNeill]

I can vouch for Central Western Brake & Clutch 280 Peisley st Orange. they have rebuilt the M/C and W/cyl for the blitz, they do a good job.

[Keith Webb]

On MLU I can ask a unique question without ridicule

We can still take the piss though.