Carrier AOP

[mudeng]

Can anyone help to identify the purpose of the fitting seen outlined in red on the enclosed. It appears to be a bar, threaded at one end, with wing nut fitted and a claw attachment above, or part of it.
The same thing is shown on the stowage diagram for the MkIII.

I am also looking for details of the cable reel holder that held the telephone cable reel at the rear of the vehicle.
I have an overhead shot, but I need to see the shape of the holder itself, was it a cast item or metal brackets?

Thanks in advance if you can help.

George Moore.

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by mudeng
Can anyone help to identify the purpose of the fitting seen outlined in red on the enclosed. It appears to be a bar, threaded at one end, with wing nut fitted and a claw attachment above, or part of it.
The same thing is shown on the stowage diagram for the MkIII.

I am also looking for details of the cable reel holder that held the telephone cable reel at the rear of the vehicle.
I have an overhead shot, but I need to see the shape of the holder itself, was it a cast item or metal brackets?

Thanks in advance if you can help.

George Moore.

George hi.

Can help you with the first item. What you are looking at is the post for attaching the signalling lamp to. Its in the down position in your photo. The signalling lamp is also stowed in the bin below the post.

Nigel

[mudeng]

Thanks Nigel,

Also for idetifying the lamp, I thought it may have been a loud hailer! Though rather pointless on a forward observation vehicle.
Was the lamp a Helleson type, carried by most AFV's? Any details on one?
I have read with great interest some of the articles you have written about the history of the carrier, and its many variants.

Couple of other questions though, were engines painted? I have some info from the "flathead" website on Ford V8 engines, with factory colours and dates they were used. Wartime dates gives the colour as dark green, would the Dagenham engines have been painted, then shipped onto the various other builders?
In the enclosed, there is flat container, open along one side. What did this hold? The mounting frame for the radio is just above it, so what was the purpose for this?

Thanks again.

George Moore.

[Lynn Eades]

Would you be able to send me high resolution images of these two photos.
( And can you look for the P.M. I sent you a while back)

[Jordan Baker]

Hi George

I know this doesn't help with your question but I found these pictures on the IWM site.

Universal carrier Mk I fitted out as an Artillery OP (Observation Post) carrier equipped with No. 11 and No. 18 wireless sets.
Date, 1 November 1941

[Jordan Baker]

This picture has the same description

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by Jordan Baker
Hi George

I know this doesn't help with your question but I found these pictures on the IWM site.

Universal carrier Mk I fitted out as an Artillery OP (Observation Post) carrier equipped with No. 11 and No. 18 wireless sets.
Date, 1 November 1941

A point of interest about this carrier. It was built as an OP carrier by Aveling Barford, England and one of only 253. Built between Sept'39 and Mar'40.

Its strange though that they retained the Bren Mag Loading Tool Bin on the top of the enlarged battery box at the rear, as the OP carriers weren't usually equipped with the Bren. Maybe it was used for the crew fags!!!

Nigel

[mudeng]

Thanks Nigel,
The Marking of a diagonal cross on a blue shield would indicate 52nd Inf Div, (Lowland). with 42 on a red over blue artillery sign.
I need to look up my references etc.

This is the only version I have seen with the extended battery/stowage box on the rear, plus the frame and geared set up for the cable laying device.

The example in my photo, IWM series KID 991, 992, and 993, were taken parked by a kerb. It has a set of trade plates 969 PU attached, if you look carefully on the photo of the driver/commanders area, the front headlamp has a number plate with the distinctive triangle tied on to it.

I enclose a stowage diagram for a MkIII AOP, this has the front mouted cable reel plus the rear mounted cable reel.
It shows what I now know, (thank you), the support and fixing for the signal lamp.

Thanks for the info.

George.

[Lynn Eades]

Have just re sent P.M.
Do you have a key for the stowage plan you posted?
Here is another stowage plan from the Mk3 W

[Jordan Baker]

Here are some more AOP pictures

[Jordan Baker]

next

[Jordan Baker]

British Pathe

# 1346_21_48

[Jordan Baker]

last one

[Lynn Eades]

Thanks for that. The photo with T84840 shows a ladder hanging on the left side. I have the brackets, but didn't know what they held. This carrier's T number is 151 before mine (T84991)

[mudeng]

Thanks for the info guys, allways intriquing, and more questions to be asked.
The hoops for the canvass covers on some carriers about to be loaded. I know the Welsh Guards had a version, with a very smart "tailored" canvass cover, IWM has some very nice photo's of this version. Best if I am contacted by pm for more info.

From the info I have, the MkIII had the large opening on the dividing plate, "bulkhead", plated over, and a totally re-designed cooling layout, and the engine cover did not have the air ducts either side.

A close look at my earlier photo of the rear of the AOP MkI, the cable reel holder shown in the lower right hand appears to be a cast item, rather than fabricated.

I enclose some shots of my model of the MkIII, 95% complete.

Thanks.
George.

[mudeng]

Thanks for the info guys, allways intriquing, and more questions to be asked.
The hoops for the canvass covers on some carriers about to be loaded. I know the Welsh Guards had a version, with a very smart "tailored" canvass cover, IWM has some very nice photo's of this version. Best if I am contacted by pm for more info.

From the info I have, the MkIII had the large opening on the dividing plate, "bulkhead", plated over, and a totally re-designed cooling layout, and the engine cover did not have the air ducts either side.

A close look at my earlier photo of the rear of the AOP MkI, the cable reel holder shown in the lower right hand appears to be a cast item, rather than fabricated.

I enclose some shots of my model of the MkIII, 95% complete.

Thanks.
George.

[mudeng]

Sorry about posting twice, my browser timed out, and I thought it had not gone through.
Here is the second shot.

BTW, is there any way we can submit more than one photo at a time?

George

[Lynn Eades]

The mk2 is riveted construction and has conventional air ducting, as per other carriers. when you say "Mk3" , I take that to mean a Mk3w(Welded hull). The Mk3w has no air ducting as per your model. the air is drawn in through the std.large hole in the division plate(as per other models. It flows on through the engine area through the two rectangular holes in the rear plate( as per other models) The hot air is then turned up through 90 degrees by a curved plate that bolts both to the rear plate, and the rear deck (the one the jack bkt. is mounted on) The hot air flows up and out through the mesh screen.(the most rearward mesh on your excellent model)
I immagine the whole reason for this is to dramatically increase the carriers wading ability.
I have some cable reels made of panel steel with wooden centres. they fit the brackets on the carrier. They appear narrower than the one in your picture, but are the same as the one in the stowage plan I posted.

[mudeng]

Hi,
I'm afraid a little cheating took place, the cable reels are a bought item, so the width was kinda governed by that.
I think I am correct in saying that the MkIIIw was produced solely as an AOP vehicle. This comes from the references in "Making Tracks", plus info from a preface in one of the instruction manuals, which also lists engine types. This is pretty much what I have seen in Nigels very informative article.
Though not exhaustive in research, I have yet to see a MKIII in other roles, than the AOP, though with all the gear stowed, it is sometimes difficult to see the layout of the engine deck.
The main differences would appear to be the upper air inlet is blanked off, the obvious "shuftee shutter" on the bulged front, a single central headlamp, and I think the front valances were the earlier style, not the "ribbed" style as on the MkII.
david Fletchers book on the Carrier does state that MkI carriers were updated to the MkII configuration, different fittings, hinged section to the front bulge, and front valances
My query on the cable reel holder, is that from the photo I sent, it looks very much like a cast item, rather than fabricated.

George.