Carriers on the Road

[Robert Dabkowski]

Peter Simundson, President of the OMVA, is spearheading an attempt to convince the Ontario Government to license Carriers for on-road use. To offer help or for information please post here or contact Peter directly at 905-826-6136.

Robert Dabkowski (OMVA Membership)

[Stewart Loy]

Where do we need to be, and what do we need to do?

Please count me in.


Stewart

[Snowtractor]

...good luck on that , it would be fantastic .
As a side bar my for 3/4 4x4 wieghed 8,800 pounds my 1 ton pickup style wieghs 11,000lbs , hope this puts the little carrier weight in prospective. Also, the carrier is much narrower than the one ton and therefore less likely to crowd other traffic lanes.
Also based on my heavy equipment experience the carrier is fitted with what we would call street tracks. Very close shallow lugs that are flat with no ice cleats or rough terrain cleats. The 105,000lb tracked excavator I drove had street tracks on it and would not hurt pavement at all. Now really hot macdam will mark up with heavy trucks too. I am sure an explanation or description of street tracks could be found with a Cat dealer and there may even be a legal description of them in the highway traffic act.
Sean

[greg anderson (RIP)]

What help can one give --carrier owners being few would seem to have little political clout ---having a license there is still the problem of insurance -- nevertheless I encourage the effort --please keep us posted --Greg Anderson

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by greg anderson
---having a license there is still the problem of insurance --Greg Anderson

I was speaking to Perry Kitson of London ( Carrier owner ) who was lamaneting the fact that his insurance carrier would not sell him liability coverage as he did not have a tag for his vehicle.

The insurance folks and the Ministry of Transportation better not ever get into the same room - the buggers would not know who to blame then!



Stewart


PS - Greg - how are plans for the Coe Hill coming? Wiull there be a parade this year ( with ot without plates or insurance).



.

[chris vickery]

Stewart, I believe you are correct about the insurance issue.
I know that when I have been talking to Tony Lant at Lant Insurance that they require a motor vehicle registration (green slip) in order to provide insurance. I have tried to insure a vehicle simply to have something on it while under restoration and was informed of this stipulation.
Lant are pretty good about insuring most mvs I've ever seen thrown their way without being too picky.
Now, just figure out how to get the MTO to give you a vehicle registration...
BTW, I wish you fellas luck on this venture as the MTO is known as being very difficult to deal with... just talk to one of the "green hornets" enforcement officers...
Sure glad I've got a vehicle registration for the halftrack...

[charlie fitton]

Peter is opening a BIG can of worms here, and I fell I must be said out loud.

When this is done, one of two things will happen ;

a) Carrier owners will face a new level of taxation, inspection, expense, and scrutiny from the powers that be, or, more likely:

b) carriers will NEVER be allowed on the road for any purpose. Period.

As it is now - we can carefully trundle up and down the road and assuming we display due caution, we get co-operation from the local authorities.
I did cringe when I read (in this forum) about driving at fairly high speeds down main roads. One blown track pin, a grabbing brake, or a dusty patch on the ashphalt and that machine is ass over teakettle in the ditch and someone is in front of the CO's desk....

Has anyone been able to get even liability coverage for their carrier. More event organizers are asking for liability coverage and I have not had any success finding any insusance company that will even consider covering such a vehicle, not even extending personal or home liability to cover static displays if the carrier is not at my residence

[Snowtractor]

Most events carry blanket liability insurance. The very act of putting on an event makes you liable for your displays, vendors, roads , bathrooms etc etc. I would be suspect of an event that didn't carry any , though having your own may cover your ass. Myself ,I want to show the stuff off but if I have to have a six foot fence and security and my own insurance and transportation to the site ,etc. , screw it.
Sean

Some event organizers are asking for vendors to be covered to defray the cost of insurance for that venue. The air show here in London has been hit with massive gouging by the insurance industry ever since 9/11, so they are passing some of the cost down to the vendors and people like myself who only display. I would still like to get liability insurance for my carrier

[greg anderson (RIP)]

I am inclined to agree with Charlie Fitton that perhaps it is best to let sleeping dogs lie -without wishing to appear negative the chances of getting licensed and insured are in my opinion very slim -I am told that when one owner asked for an endorsement on his house policy he was refused but his rate was raised and thereby hangs another interesting tale -event sponsors will tell you that they have coverage-they may have coverage but you will not be covered --insurance only covers those who are named or described in the policy. I would like for instance to see the OMVA policy (if there is one) to see who is covered for their sponsored? santioned? events.-as I had mentioned in an earlier posting for the Coe Hill event the highway is closed for the parade by municipal bylaw and is therefor OK to be used for tracked vehicles during that limited time also since this is a municipal event under the municipal recreational committee some coverage has been extended in the past by special endosement in the municipality's liability policy and we hope this will be continued for the 2005 event which is shaping up to be bigger and better than ever -- now I must rest my index typing finger --Greg

Just to clarify my earlier posts, I am interested in getting liability coverage to cover myself if there were to be a mishap at a parade, show or event that I was attending with my carrier. I tend to agree that if we were able to get our carriers registered for the road that we would be buttering up a big sh** sandwhich, only to be made to take a big bite later by the powers that be. The problem I have is that I have not been able to find an insurance company that will touch me and my carrier for the coverage I am looking for, whether the carrier is plated or not.

[Snowtractor]

...insurance company seach of Yahoo canada brought up dozens of listings like this one... http://www.insurance-canada.ca/consp...s/autospec.php

If they insure old farm tractors and old restored Semi's etc etc, then there is liability insurance for the carrier.

Number one, I would stay away from calling it a "bren gun carrier"! Call it as it is ,a Universal Carrier. Guns are bad, this is Canada you know, so don't use the word to some urban clerk who goes home and watches all those stupid murder shows, CSI and America's most wanted, etc., ad naseum , shows.

It is an unarmed tower/hauler. Like a tracked tractor. No sir it is quite small only 8000lbs same weight as a 3/4 pickup and much lighter than an agricultural tractor, in fact many were turned in to farm tractors in the 50's. Forget the Mark twos and PIAT mounting points etc , he/she doesn't care and may become TOO interested in your carrier. Its just a plain old tractorish vehicle that you'd like to take to shows.

I have had trouble licensing trailers and other items when I was too detailed or honest, for example I have a company made trailer that was modified by another certified trailer company but do you think I could get it licensed when I told them that? No way, so I go to another office (after a chat with a friend) and say "I have a homebuilt trailer, make it number 0001" and I have a trailer license in about 8 minutes.

for what it is worth.
Sean

[Keith Webb]

You mean on the road like this?




Or like this?

Source

[Tony Smith]

No, Keith, they probably mean out on the open road doing highway speeds like this:

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Gee Keefy and Tim Tam Tony, you guys can be cruel. Biggest problem I had in the lead Carrier LP1 was clearing a pathway through all the Blitzs. Anyway the next two images are not in any way being a tease to the oversear readers, they are just to share with you two a couple more memorable moments of Corowa 2005.

Oh what the hell, TEASE TEASE.

Anonymous Salesman Bob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Anybody want to buy a Carrier. You get a free Blitz with it. We need the room.



Snicker, snicker, chortle, tee hee.

Bye for now.

[Keith Webb]

What's that, Bob? Free shipping to Canada too?



Take this one - it's all dusty now and we don't like unclean vehicles.

[Keith Webb]

And while we're at it here's a pic of Salesman Bob having cleared the way through the blitzes and onto the open road...



Come to think of it, one of the carrier drivers was heard (on the DVD) to say that experience was better than you-know-what.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Dammit Keefy you just reminded me that I have to BUY (gulp) a DVD player for the forthcoming brilliant Keefy B. DeMille's DVD "The Year of the Carrier".

[20387774]

I'm not sure if this approach would work for your carriers, but I had the same problem getting insurance for my M29C weasel. I ended up getting it registered with the Ministry of Transport as a "snowmobile"(well it has tracks!) and after that the insurance company had to cover me. On top of that a snowmobile sticker is very cheap and you don't need a safety.

In the early 80's we used to take our carrier in parades and had it covered under the farm policy as an agricultural machine.

My 2 cents,

John Dallimore

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi guys
All jokes aside, we here in South Australia went through the same exercise of trying to get our Carriers on the road. Other Oz States have different rules but this is what we brokered here.

• Written approval from the authority responsible for the road, e.g. State Transport Authority, local council, etc.
• An observer must be with the vehicle.
• Not undertake any manoeuvres that would damage the road surface, e.g. fast U-turns, etc.
• Not to be on the road if the ambient temperature is greater that 35C (95F).
• The vehicle must be on Historic Registration and for that to occur the owner must be a member of a relevant car club.
• Travel restricted to daylight hours.

We also obtained a letter from the Mayor of Corowa stating that the record run of 17 Carriers through the township in March 2005 did not cause any damage to the road surface. Any supporting evidence like that is useful. I believe we also put in a written submission but I haven’t seen that.

You may also be interested in our Historic Registration rules. I believe we have the best conditions in Oz.

• The owner must belong to a relevant car club.
• The vehicle must be historically correct with this being determined by the car club Vehicle Registrar.
• Once the vehicle is Historically Registered the owner receives a log book that allows 90 days per year travel of the vehicle. The main stipulation here is that the log book must be filled out prior to travel on a daily basis.
• The vehicle is not to be used for commercial gain, e.g. payments for weddings, escorts, running a business, etc.

The other advantage is that the Registration/Insurance fees are pro-rata to 90 days as is any additional insurance such as Comprehensive Insurance. We even have an Insurance Company her in Oz named Shannons that basically takes on the insurance sight unseen, their philosophy being that if anyone has a historically registered vehicle they must be a responsible person and therefore a low liability candidate.

And yet with all these beaut conditions there are still dickheads that abuse the system ergo jeopardising all that do the right thing. If I catch any they get reported straight away.

Anyway, hope this is of interest.

Bob

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
.... there are still dickheads ....

Hey Bob,
aren't those the wild dogs we hear so much about in Oz
Sean

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

No they are the Dingo unless you are thinking of our mysterious and mystical Swampdog.

Bob

[Jordan Baker]

Just wanted to bring this up to the front again

With the summer season here and bunch of events I want to attend to I am being pressured into getting some kind of liability insurance for my Carrier.

I don't want to get it licenced for the road at but as Perry says some kind of coverage would be better then nothing.

Anyone have some thoughts?

[20387774]

Jordan-I insured my "Panzer" as a farm tractor. Just put an orange triangle on the back .

I just took it in a parade on Saturday, no problems.

John

[Jordan Baker]

John

Did you have the policy go through you farm insurance? Please tell more details.

[20387774]

Jordan-I have my other tractors on my farm policy. I jsut phone them and they added it.

John

[Jordan Baker]

John, what happens if something does go wrong and the insurance company finds out it is not a tractor.

This is my concern.

[20387774]

I ahve a bit of an edge on that one. The Panzer 1's were called "Land Tractors"(Landsers) by the germans before ww2 started. I have pics of them in training, with only the hulls and no upper structure. Ours is built the same.

John