Driving a Blitz in Europe

zemsi · #1 26-03-07, 20:09

Good Day

I've been thinking about buying a small Aussi Blitz like an F15 or F15a and import it into Europe, after taking part at year of the Blitz in 2009 :-)))

I was wondering, can you drive a Blitz in Europe with your ordinary car licence? In Switzerland it's allowed to drive vehicles up to 3,5 ton (loaded). What's the weight of an F15 unloaded and loaded?

Is the import and the numberplate registration easy to handle?

Would like to hear your experiences.

Thanx
Chris

Keith Webb · #2 26-03-07, 21:14

Hi Chris

If you look at my reference picture of an Aussie F15A you'll see a plate with a '5' on the front. This is the bridge plate which denotes a loaded weight of 5 tons so I think you'll need to look at upgrading your car licence.

Why don't you just leave it here and then you can use it each year when you visit.

Rob Beale · #3 26-03-07, 21:49

the Kiwi puddle jumper is the ultimate little big truck.

The C8AX is 7250 lb gross, ie 3.35 ton loaded. It still looks like a C15A but has the benefit of being within the rules for a car licence.

The C15A is 10,000 lb gross, ie 4.6 tonne loaded

Here in NZ we are saved the hassle of drivers log book, hubodometer and road user charges, and restricted driving hours. Warrant of fitness checks are less than half that of a large truck too.

note you would'nt want to exceed the driving hour limits in a PJ!

Rob

Hanno Spoelstra · #4 27-03-07, 00:18

Quote:

Originally posted by zemsi
I was wondering, can you drive a Blitz in Europe with your ordinary car licence? In Switzerland it's allowed to drive vehicles up to 3,5 ton (loaded). What's the weight of an F15 unloaded and loaded?

Hi Chris,

In Holland you can. A 15-cwt CMP truck generally weighs less than 3.500 kgs, excluding load, but including driver, which permits you to register it as a car and drive it using your car licence.

Excellent idea, by the way. Salesman Bob tell us CMPs grow on trees down under, so I'd say go ahead and pick a ripe one. Why not drive it up to Switzerland? Lang drove a Chevrolet staff car to Europe.

H.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #5 27-03-07, 00:18

Lucky us old sods that have British licenses that enable us to drive up to 7.5 tonners. Never driven one though.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #6 27-03-07, 00:26

Sell your licence to Chris, I can negotiate the deal. You two are almost twins in looks (refer Arnie and Danny in the film Twins) so you could get away with it. And Hanno is right. Ask Max he has plenty of them so I'm sure he'll restore one for you. Besides which he owes you for all your farm labouring.

Salesman Bob

Keith Webb · #7 27-03-07, 00:58

Quote:

I have a vehicle in the South Is, as well as a trailer, as well as sundry spare parts, etc, etc and have tried to get shipping quotes.

I KNEW you were up to no good on your raids to UnZud!

Show us the pics!

Alex Blair (RIP) · #8 27-03-07, 01:08

Hi Chris..
Why go all the way to Oz to get your CMP...?
Just zip down the hill and steal Hannos and drive it back...
Seriously,There are CMP's available in Europe that are probably allready licenced and roadworthy that you could buy...
Lot closer and a lot cheeper and less hassle...If you brought it from Oz you would probably have to pick it up and transport it from Antwerp anyway..
Just a thought..

Keith Webb · #9 27-03-07, 01:16

I think Chris really wants to drive his own CMP in Australia in the next Year of the Blitz first.

zemsi · #10 27-03-07, 17:22

Hi Guys

Wow, I didn't expect such a great feedback!

I guess the weight is going to be a problem. If it's over 3,5 t I would have to make a truck licence. But the bad thing is, truck driving on Sundays isn't allowed in Switzerland and you have to pay a road tax. Don't know if for Oldtimers too.

I guess I have first to check with the road registration department the details.

My personal Blitzhunter, Max, is already hot for the treasure hunting in Down Under ;-) The truck should be in the Yass area and not in Northern Territory or even Perth ;-)

It would be great fun to drive my own Blitz to Corowa and back and then take it back home. What about the prices in Europe, is there a great difference comparing with Aussie?

Well, in Switzerland I've only seen one Ford Blitz so far. Are all of them in Holland/Belgium? The Swiss Army used only a handful of them after the war.

greetings
Chris

alleramilitaria · #11 27-03-07, 17:44

zemsi

i dont think you will have any problems
the thing is i think you are looking at 3.5 METREC tons.
thats lots more than 3.5 normal tons
dave

Richard Farrant · #12 27-03-07, 19:56

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
i dont think you will have any problems
the thing is i think you are looking at 3.5 METREC tons.
thats lots more than 3.5 normal tons

Dave,

Recheck your calculations

1 metric ton (tonne) = 0.9842 Imperial Tons

Therefore 3.5 tonnes = 3.4447 Imperial tons

The European driving licence limit for car licences is 3500 kg (3.5 tonnes) and is unladen vehicle weight plus theoretical payload, or Gross Vehicle Weight.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #13 27-03-07, 20:56

Can you drive a 7.5 tonner truck in Europe if your GB license says you can under the old rules?

Richard Farrant · #14 27-03-07, 21:15

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Can you drive a 7.5 tonner truck in Europe if your GB license says you can under the old rules?

Yes.

Hanno Spoelstra · #15 27-03-07, 21:49

Quote:

Originally posted by zemsi
I guess the weight is going to be a problem. If it's over 3,5 t I would have to make a truck licence. But the bad thing is, truck driving on Sundays isn't allowed in Switzerland and you have to pay a road tax. Don't know if for Oldtimers too.

No, it's not. As stated before: a 15-cwt CMP truck generally weighs less than 3.500 kgs, excluding load, but including driver, which permits you to register it as a car and drive it using your car licence.

Quote:

I guess I have first to check with the road registration department the details.

Yes, do find out about local regulations permitting vintage vehicles on the road.

Quote:

What about the prices in Europe, is there a great difference comparing with Aussie?

In general I think the prices in Europe are higher, just because the cost of living is in general. But you will have to take shipping into account as well. I know a transport company in Belgium who can get you a good quote from Melbourne to Antwerp.

Quote:

Well, in Switzerland I've only seen one Ford Blitz so far. Are all of them in Holland/Belgium?

We have a good selection of CMPs in Holland, see some of them here. The best CMPs, Fords, were taken back home by the Canadians so the inferior ones are more plentyful here.

H.

Hanno Spoelstra · #16 27-03-07, 22:56

Chris, what about this truck in it's lovely Kermit-camouflage?

zemsi · #17 28-03-07, 20:11

Hi Hanno

Thank you for your replies. The Fordson looks nice, I guess she even has a Ford V8. But nothing can beat a real CMP ;-)

There was a nice Aussie Fordson at the AWM open Day in Canberra 3 weeks ago.

Thank you for the transport company. I'll get in touch with you if I should need it. But as you know, Corowa 2009 is quite a way to go ;-)

I will speak with a guy of the road registration department in the next days to see what he knows...

cu
Chris

Lang · #18 02-04-07, 11:39

Chris,

I don't know what all this carry-on is about.

Look at 20 replies from the world's "experts" on CMPs and nobody can agree on what you would imagine would be an easily verifiable thing like the weight of their vehicles. How is the Swiss registration office going to know?

The 15cwt is so close to your Swiss licence limits that you just wheel it in and put down an eye pleasing number on the application form. It must be a British and European authority thing I have noticed regularly on this site. Everybody seems keen to confess their sins and draw the crabs by fanfaring anomalies in their vehicle's adherance to the rules when they have a POSSIBLY marginal situation.

Tell them nothing, take them nowhere! Obeying every rule only encourages the bastards. If your local inspector knocks it back take it to the next town until you find someone who will pass it or go Lichtenstein or Bulgaria - I am sure an MLU member will forward registration renewal letters each year from his address.

Chris, if you want to just ship the truck to Alexandria, I will drive from Alamein to Europe with you (if you pull the front axles out the 15cwt 4x4 is quite a nippy little machine on the highway. Well, sort of)
Lang

Rob Beale · #19 02-04-07, 12:34

there doesn't seem to be a fixed weight specified for the F15 or F15A. The Ford manual MB-F1 doesn't include weights for any vehicles in the table of specs at the back. (MB-C1 does)
Bart van der Veen's fighting Vehicles Directory has several weights for different body styles, and cab types on F15 and F15A, so no consistency there either.

The conversions for the weights I quoted earlier for the C15A may be slightly out, as to ton or tonne, and don't forget short vs long tons too, so there is scope for adjustment.

I agree that you select a favourable weight, and go with that.

Best luck with the project, Rob

Hanno Spoelstra · #20 02-04-07, 12:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Lang
I don't know what all this carry-on is about.

Look at 20 replies from the world's "experts" on CMPs and nobody can agree on what you would imagine would be an easily verifiable thing like the weight of their vehicles. How is the Swiss registration office going to know?

The 15cwt is so close to your Swiss licence limits that you just wheel it in and put down an eye pleasing number on the application form. It must be a British and European authority thing I have noticed regularly on this site. Everybody seems keen to confess their sins and draw the crabs by fanfaring anomalies in their vehicle's adherance to the rules when they have a POSSIBLY marginal situation.

Lang,

I'm pretty sure the situation in Switzerland is the same (or worse) as in Holland: when you bring a vehicle in for first registration, the authorities demand you show them a certified weighing letter. When weighing, the vehicle needs to have the gas tank filled for at least 50%, and a spare has to be carried. So you can take off top bows and canvas, tool box and other non-necessary items to bring the weight well within the limit. If you do it right you might even be left with a 100 kg. carrying capacity. In Holland historical 15-cwt or 3/4-ton trucks often are registered as a passenger car, leaving little margin for the load one can legally carry, but normally that does not pose for problems.

Chris, 15-cwt CMPs are available in Europe, but complete and runing ones come at a cost. It took me several years of searching to find my F15A. So if you come across a nice 15-cwt in Australia, go for it. Drive it back with Lang for the journey of your life!

H.

Hanno Spoelstra · #21 02-04-07, 13:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob Beale
there doesn't seem to be a fixed weight specified for the F15 or F15A. The Ford manual MB-F1 doesn't include weights for any vehicles in the table of specs at the back. (MB-C1 does)

From "Ford Special Pattern Vehicles":

Rob Beale · #22 02-04-07, 14:22

I should have checked that one too.

Adding the F15A Chassis/cab weight plus body weight plus double the load rating (2 x 15 cwt) gives 10,047 pounds, which is close to the allowable maximum for a C15A.

What difference would be in a cab 13?

I know that post war in NZ, when the army registered their fleet for the road, many C8AX were rated at 15cwt load, and some at 1 ton.

This fits with the system where off road ratings were half of the on road ratings e.g. 5 ton for a 6x4 GMC, and 2.5 ton for a 6x6. BTW are these US vehicles rated in the short ton (ie 2000 pound) or the long ton (2240 pound)?

Using the long ton, 3.5 ton is 7840 pound, so that leaves 1153 pound for payload, about half a ton. F15 would be more.

Rob

David_Hayward (RIP) · #23 02-04-07, 15:16

I think that we have established before that the C8AX was indeded a 15-cwt truck, plus of course the FATs were three-tonners. Post-war in the UK there were various capacities registered on demob out of all recognition with the military ratings.

Hanno Spoelstra · #24 02-04-07, 21:42

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
I think that we have established before that the C8AX was indeded a 15-cwt truck, plus of course the FATs were three-tonners.

Nope, sorry, the C8AX was a 8-cwt truck. While the FAT used three-ton truck components, it did not have a load rating.

Regards,
Hanno (who's wearing an anorak tonight

)

Lang · #25 02-04-07, 22:55

Chris,

Looks like Hanno has your answer. If you do as he says and strip the vehicle for weighing - might not even have to pump the tyres up with helium - you will get through under the weight to drive on your car licence.

Better get the Australian blitz team looking for likely suspects. The Canadians seem to have a few too and shipping would be cheaper.

Lang

David_Hayward (RIP) · #26 02-04-07, 23:12

I may have to put forward my points to show where I am coming from. But I do respect the ambiguity of the evidence! Also I am only going by written evidence and you know the subject far more than I do Hanno!

The C8AX was according to the DND Chassis Model C.15441, i.e. 15-cwt, 4-wheel drive and the same as the C15A. I believe, but do stand corrected, that we discussed this at length before but I know as I get older my memory is corrupting. I am sure we discussed that the C8AX had uprated components to allow a 15-cwt capacity. Then again the C8AX is listed in the C8A Contracts listing, but contra that GM of Canada allocated the trucks a seperate Model Number from the "regular" C8A! If I can find the original British contract card for S/M 2394 I shall be interested to see what capacity the British Ministry of Supply rated them at. In the meantime what did the NZ forces rate them at please?

The C-GTs were Model C60441, i.e. 3-ton/60-cwt officially. Now, I agree that the CGT tractor did not have a load, but the 2-Pounder Portee used the same chassis, and was built alongside the 1941 Model CGTs for the MofS. However I have to argure the authorities against me here, as officially the MofS rated them at 30-cwt or 1 1/2 tons and not 3-tons. I know we have dicussed this before and I thought, again under correction, that we agreed that the GTs were indeed three-tonners. Post-war CGTs were rated at anything between 40 and 74 cwt, with "60 cwt lorry" being frequently quoted though many were registered as agricultural tractors. This is not absolute proof but is circumstantial evidence. However I do agree that at the very least the C-GT chassis was a 30-cwt load carrier, initially, although I think that the Portee rebuilds as G/S lorries was to 3-ton capacity. However I cannot prove that either way yet. The C60L 6-pounder Portees were indeed converted to 3-tonner G/S lorries but that has no bearing here.

Thread here

Lang · #27 02-04-07, 23:13

Chris,

By the way, if you are shipping vehicles the ONLY way to go is roll-on roll-off ships. Maybe if you had a veteran Rolls Royce or brand new Ferarri you might use a container but the risk if theft or damage is about zero - these guys carry hundreds of thousands of cars a year in the car carrier ships. The fellows loading the vehicles have each driven more different cars than the entire MLU forum membership combined!

Cost and convenience are the main things. I just put my Fiat 500 Bambino on the ship yesterday to go to Vladivostok - have a look at my web site www.next-horizon.org (We are going through Russia now because of the Iran situation)

The cost of it going as LCL (packed in a container with other stuff) was AUD$1,100 BUT the cost of having the required professionally built wood crate was $790 extra. If I did not want to box it a full container just for my car was $2,900. All that stuffing around delivering it to the packer and having it picked up for trucking, smashed around by forklift in its box and unpacking at the other end.

The TOTAL cost roll-on roll-off - $750. I meet it at the dock and drive away.

Lang

#28 02-04-07, 23:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Nope, sorry, the C8AX was a 8-cwt truck. While the FAT used three-ton truck components, it did not have a load rating.

Regards,
Hanno (who's wearing an anorak tonight )

Ballard snr put his F15 Polsten on the public weighbridge:

3.3 tonnes
3.247881541 tons, long, British
3.637627326 tons, short, American
7275.254652 pounds, avoirdupois
113142.8558 tons, assay
1.987306699e+30 Daltons
1.66558898 lasts (wool)
2546339.115 scruples (apothecaries)
226.1218273 slugs
2121949.27 pennyweights
33 quintals
1862460.141 drams, avoirdupois
16152953.79 carats (1877)
50926790.42 grains

or

3t 4cwt 3qtr 1st 9lb 4oz

R.
(My anorak is better than yours, McSpool)

Alex Blair (RIP) · #29 03-04-07, 00:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Ballard snr put his F15 Polsten on the public weighbridge:

3.3 tonnes
3.247881541 tons, long, British
3.637627326 tons, short, American
7275.254652 pounds, avoirdupois
113142.8558 tons, assay
1.987306699e+30 Daltons
1.66558898 lasts (wool)
2546339.115 scruples (apothecaries)
226.1218273 slugs
2121949.27 pennyweights
33 quintals
1862460.141 drams, avoirdupois
16152953.79 carats (1877)
50926790.42 grains

or

3t 4cwt 3qtr 1st 9lb 4oz

R.
(My anorak is better than yours, McSpool)

Richard...
Would you be so kind as to sort that lot out with a 'arf a tank of petrol,rather than a full tank..??

#30 03-04-07, 00:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Richard...
Would you be so kind as to sort that lot out with a 'arf a tank of petrol,rather than a full tank..??

Certainly Ol' Chap; now which 'arf are you wanting?

It was done with left full and right 'arf; so would that be 'arf 'n 'arf or 'arf and nuffin?

R.