Support Maple Leaf Up!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Gentlemen,

It's that time of year again! We need your financial support to keep up the fine standards which have been ours for 12 years now.

These last few months have been tougher than normal because having been arbitrarily retired from my old job, it's proven tougher than I'd reckoned to find a suitable replacement. Having said that, we're hanging on, but we need your help to maintain the level of service we have up to this point.

You know I've given my all to this since 1998, albeit with some help from many of you over the years. I'd appreciate your help again now, and I don't think a few dollars is too much to ask for the magnificent community we have built here! God willing, MLU will progress for many years yet!

I simply ask you to consider what MLU means to you, and how much you might be willing to donate to help 'keep it running'.

Anyone, anywhere can send me anything you choose via PayPal at gwball - at - sympatico.ca (make the necessary substitution for the - at -). North Americans may also send me cheques or money orders (International only please!) to the following address:

Geoff Winnington-Ball
1558 Queen Street East,
Toronto, ON
Canada M4L 1E8

Thanks so much for your understanding, enthusiasm and generosity! We have a damned good thing going here and I think we all want to see it continue.

Thanks again,

Geoff/Jif/SUNRAY

[Rich Payne]

I don't post that often but I miss it when it's down. I've bunged some loose change in the hat.

Keep up the good work !

Rich

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Thanks Rich (and Bruce!).

Sorry about the outage today... it was apparent to me last night that someone's program had dumped a massive amount of raw data into the root directory of our server, filling the directory to capacity. It took me from 0600 to approximately 1500 today to find someone who knew what I was talking about. Oi vey... anyway, we're back up now!

Cheers,

Jif

[peter simundson]

....will start the ball rolling. Will $200.00 help??

Peter S

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Peter,

Every little bit helps! We have to remember that MLU doesn't run itself... in 12 years I have spent many thousands of hours and many more thousands of dollars out of my own pocket to make this what it is now. I'm damned proud of it, and damned proud of the fact that I've not been forced to levy subscriptions as have so many others. We're better than that, but I can't do it all myself (of course if I won the lottery...)

Anyway, yes, any donation you can make will help.



Jif

[Bob Carriere]

It is absolutely amazing what has been done by Geoff and what information has been accumulated through the efforts of MLU and Geoff's own sacrifice and contribution....... I do not know of anyone else who could have give so much, to so many, for so little....

However..... let's be adults about running such and exhaustive service as MLU.

Yes, Geoff has resisted having ANYKIND of levy or membership but last time I looked at my Calendar it said 2010..... the economy is not the greatest for anyone and to expect to be able to continue the same way for another 12 years is in my mind being irresponsible towards the MLU site and all the efforts made by Geoff. We all take it for granted until is it down... like Rich Payne just mentioned ....we miss it when we can't access it any more......

Let's not kid ourselves a number of us have been calling and emailing fellow MLU members as soon as the site was down asking ourselves what we could do .... not only to revive MLU but make sure that we have the necessary financial safety net to insure that it will continue to trive for another decade + with the guidance of Geoff.

I pay, quite freely and satisfied with the services, for my membership to OMVA..... I suscribe to US military magazine, I pay $35 a year to belong to the Ottawa Valley Woodturner club, etc..... and honestly I get ten times more information, enjoyment and camaraderie from the MLU site. I have made so many friends near and far......

I suggest we put in place a process to effectively collect and manage funds that will guarantee the future financial operation of MLU and remove the financial burden from Geoff's shoulders.... for now and forever......

Let's get off the tit guys.....

Let's free Geoff to continue to administer MLU and make it live up to its full potential.

Geoff ...... Thank you for bringing us all together.....we owe you a lot...... we can never repay you in full......

Let us do this for you.... for MLU.... for the hobby.... lets work to stay together.

Your friend

Boob
PS.... some immediate seed money is on it's way by Pay Pal.

[Rick W]

My contribution will be winging its way tomorrow.

[hrpearce]

I'm with Bob, many hands make light work.
With over 3000 members now if the average gift was $10.00 that should be a great help to Geoff, and everyone should agree this is a great sight to be a member of.
I live in the middle of nowhere and have made great contacts through MLU and the help I received through MLU from around the world meant my blitz ended up a lot better than it would have without that help.

[Phil Waterman]

Another bit of support has been sent from south of the Boarder.

Cheers Phil

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

This morning I ran a small study of our membership breakdown. Here are the results:

TOTAL MEMBERS................ 3021
NON-POSTING MEMBERS.... 2734
ACTIVE MEMBERS............... 1287

Non-posting members are all those who have zero posts; this includes approximately 400 on the latest ban list (the ones I've not deleted) as well as about 150 who are not banned but whose applications have not been approved due to suspect IDs and/or suspect email addresses. Normally some of these last will inevitably contact me to clarify their status, but few of these have in recent months. They may be spammers who just gave up (they're not on any spam list I use though) or they may be people who just thought it 'cool' to join but never intended to participate.

Of the Active Members, the following applies:

1 - 10 POSTS.................... 741
10 - 50 POSTS.................. 306
OVER 50 POSTS................ 240

Obviously, the ones above with more than 50 posts are our dyed-in-the-wool core, but I'd also include a great many of the 1 - 50 group there as well; many of them are newly-arrived and have demonstrated great interest but just haven't had the chance to be more chatty.

In the 1 - 10 group, many of the higher numbers are also new to the forum, but also haven't had a chance yet to become more mainstream. All are obviously interested, else they wouldn't have posted at all.

What I haven't got the time (or inclination) to do right now is run a study of last posting vs last activity dates in order to determine how often they jump onto the forum; having said that, I know for a fact that there's a significant number of folks who often come on here to lurk without signing in. It's impossible to say how many of these 'Visitors' we see everyday are actually members who simply don't log in, vs Outsiders who are reading and/or scarfing our copy and pics. These unfortunately we can't do anything about without making MLU a Members Only forum, something I've been loathe to do up to now. It may be necessary down the road.

Last point. Since I posted my appeal last Tuesday I have received a sum total of six (6) donations. You gentlemen know who you are and I thank you.

I believe that at least two more donations are on the way via snail mail. I will acknowledge receipt privately when I receive them, but thank you in advance.

Gentlemen, I truly hope that your 4.28% response to-date (of active members - if you include ALL members, the figure is actually 2.66%) is not indicative of how you see MLU and the Forum. Not much to show for twelve years' work, is it?

I simply ask you to place a value upon what you continue to experience here, and exercise your options accordingly.

Thank you,

Geoff

[Stewart Loy]

These unfortunately we can't do anything about without making MLU a Members Only forum, something I've been loathe to do up to now. It may be necessary down the road.

Geoff

Jif,

Do I get to put my donation towards a membership in the new forum?

We need to do something different, and soon.


Stewart

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Stewart Loy

Jif,

Do I get to put my donation towards a membership in the new forum?

We need to do something different, and soon.


Stewart

Of course. If this becomes necessary then those who have donated this year to-date would be automatically covered.

Incidentally, I received two more donations via PayPal between yesterday and this morning... thank you, gentlemen!

[Bob Carriere]

The recent post from Geoff is very interesting.

I think it is time to bite the bullet and start charging a membership fee. A limited number of us have contributed enough for now......it is time for the mass to stand up and be counted.


According to Geoff we have approx. 306 active core members..... those with more than 10 postings. Let us use these numbers for financial planning.

I propose the following set of conditions for membership and fair play.

Free registration..... subject to Geoff's usual security scrutiny.

Free postings for the first 10 postings to encourage new people to test the water.

Any postings after the basic 10 you need to pay $10 annual membership.

Money collected will be publicly accounted on the forum by name.

Membership moneys collected will only be used to pay direct charges such as domain, web services, ISP services, etc.

Geoff will account for all payments with invoices.... TO PREVENT ANY GOSSIP OR UNFAIR RUMOURS OR ACCUSATION TOWARDS HIM THAT MONEY IS NOT WELL MANAGED.

I realize those are hard conditions but it needs to be fair right from the beginning and to avoid any misunderstanding. Guys buy in....send their money and accept all the conditions.... no missunderstandings.

If the core of the membership is not prepared to pay $10 a year for the direct upkeep cost of the MLU forum then we should live with the consequences.

My projections, at $10 for 75% of the core membership, is sufficient to pay for all annual services up front and benefit of bulk payments. I stand to be corrected by Geoff. Surpluses can be used for such projects are archiving information or necessary site upgrades.

I don't know how this POSTING can be highlighted on all the other threads .........but unless everyone puts down the grease can and the hot wrench.... selling stuff..... or ranting on political issues....and takes the time to reads this and makes a decision........

..... we ain't gonna last for long.


I will be waiting to read comments, suggestions, rebutals, etc. from anyone and everyone.


Thank you all.


Bob Carriere

..... can anyone find me a step ladder so I can get off this soap box...?

[aj.lec]

Sounds fair to me Bob
I know some people are doing it hard but others should get shorter pockets and let the moths out of the wallet and cough up to help out and keep this great forum going
I am sure a lot of people would miss the site and our projects a lot worse off if it were gone

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I realize those are hard conditions but it needs to be fair right from the beginning and to avoid any misunderstanding. Guys buy in....send their money and accept all the conditions.... no missunderstandings.

..... we ain't gonna last for long.

Bob,

You have hit the nail on the head.

Sign me up!


Stewart

[Rick W]

I think you need to be applauded Geoff. Taking on a forum that has grown to what it has, a worldwide place of discussion is not something I would take on lightly. You have done so selflessly, not promoting an ulterior motive and with no financial gain for yourself. When I joined this forum I hoped to contribute more, but there are others who have more knowledge and beat me to the post so to speak! From the short time I have been a member it seems a friendlier place to be than some other forums, with nothing taken personally and views expressed openly. After all, that is what a forum is meant to be. A place for open and frank discussion. But from what I have seen, its all friendly and its all discussion, and perhaps more importantly, the sharing of knowledge.
Ive had my say, Im off to bed!

[Bob Carriere]

I was just glancing through the various threads this evening and it is amazing how oblivious the plight of the MLU Forum is to everyone except a few souls.

WE rant about the federal government stupids rules and regulations ( I don't disagree)..... we rejoyce about the sound of the Sexton's engine.... it is awesome by the way.... we are still looking for tank transmissions.... and trying to sell CMPs from the coast to Toronto.....

.....but nobody seems to realize that none of this dialogue, exchange of ideas or sharing of successes would take place without the forum.....

It's like being on the Titanic and everyone is fighting to get an ice cube/ piece of the iceberg to put in their drinks not noticing that the ship is listing....!

Where would any of these people be or do if the Forum was not there....?

Allo out there...... any intelligent life out there.....? are we broadcasting to a foreign planet.....?

Feels cold and lonely out here. Wonder how Geoff feels..?

Maybe I should just go to bed and pull the blanket over my head......seems to work for everyone else.

Bob C..

[Bob Carriere]

I have a special request to make to you Geoff.....

In view of the fact that the SUPPORT MAPLE LEAF UP thread seems to be going unnoticed because we are so caught up with using MLU that we are not noticing the situation we are in.....

Can you either copy this thread to every other thread on MLU or at least a link to remind members to take notice of our plight.

It would be easy to assume that nobody cares..... but that would be inaccurate and presumptious on our part......

Guys...... we need your support..... and we need it now..... and on an annual basis.... please go back on the thread and read my comments.......

We are not trying to profit from this venture..... we are trying to insure that you still have a forum to post your frustrations, your successes and your requests for information.

Please help yourself make sure it is still there for each and everyone of you.

Thank you

Bob Carriere
Hammond, Ontario

[Brian Gough]

Geoff,

Once again, thank you for all the expense, effort and time you spend in operating this great Forum.

For those who have already responded to Geoff's most recent call for help, my thanks for doing your share and more.

For those who are still deciding to contribute - just remember how you feel when you can't log on and how you miss finding out what is happening all over our MV world and how you suffer MLU withdrawal pains until you do get back on.

And special thanks to Bob Carriere for keeping this issue current and for his efforts to get regular funding and ensure the long term future of MLU.

Cheers,

Brian

[hrpearce]

I have no problem with paying annually and usually PM Geoff when I can aford to give a little which is after the weaner sales each year Keep up the naging Bob it workes for the wife so maybe it will worke for you on Geoff's beharf.

[cliff]

Geoff I missed your appeal as I was away for a week or so in NSW visiting Gosford for the first time. I'll check my finances over the weekend and give what I can as I enjoy the forum and learning new things about the vehicles even though I don't own one myself. Did you get the money I sent from the small number of calendar sales?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Gents,

I posted my request for funds on April 13th. It is now April 24th. I have received a grand total of twelve donations, eleven by PayPal and one by mail.

This works out to a response rate from our members with greater than 10 posts of 2.2% (12/546*100). This is NOT satisfactory.

It costs money and a great deal of time to keep this forum running the way it should. With evidently rare exception, I'm the one forking out the money and I'm the one putting in the time.

Now, understand this... I'm not looking to make a living off you. BUT... I have provided something unique for all of you for the last twelve years. I expect at this stage that at least my expenses be covered, and I'm calling upon all of you out there to chime in and 'make a difference'.

MLU is truly a unique entity. I know it, and a lot of you have said so yourselves over the years, both privately and online. Now it's time to show me how unique you really think this is. Every year, the same ten to fifteen people have coughed up a few dollars each to help defray costs here, but their generosity does not cover the load. The rest is out of my pocket, never mind the thousands of hours which go into this each and every year.

This really isn't fair, is it?

I really do think the time is now to decide what MLU and its unique comradeship really means to you. There's nothing else like this on the internet, anywhere. I've so far avoided advertising and so far avoided charging a subscription fee, but these things may have to change unless you're willing to show me how much you really care... beyond the 125,000 posts you've made here. Think about it... that's an average of almost 18,000 posts per year, on subjects close to our hearts. You won't find this anywhere else.

Just think about it, gentlemen. That's all I ask. What is MLU to you?

Geoff

[Bob Carriere]

Geoff

You need to copy or paste your message to each and every thread of MLU..... for everybody to read the full string and make a contribution.....

Asking for a voluntary annual quasi membership fee of $20 dollars is not asking to much.......

Guys it is YOUR MLU site we are talking about.......

Geoff let's have a current ongoing posting of all those paid up a contribution......


Bob C.

[hrpearce]

Geoff,
Instead of just sending a PM this time I'll ask in public, if the 546 regulars were to pay for the upkeep leaving you only with the countles hours of work to worry about, how much per member would it come too. This information would help me and the rest understand if we are generous or only throwing a token gesture your way.

[Rick W]

Its a tough call for Geoff I think. You cannot count the hours. But I think if you could give us an indication of what you need from members it would help. I for one dont know how much the contributions need to be. So maybe a sub is the answer?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Geoff,
Instead of just sending a PM this time I'll ask in public, if the 546 regulars were to pay for the upkeep leaving you only with the countless hours of work to worry about, how much per member would it come too. This information would help me and the rest understand if we are generous or only throwing a token gesture your way.

Robert,

Ideally, I think that $20 per year from each of our core membership is proper and appropriate. It would not only allow me to keep the bills paid, but keep the software up-to-date and allow me to invest in good stuff like hats, t-shirts, golf shirts, coveralls, mugs etc. Stuff like this needs thousands in advance and can sit on shelves for months. I simply can't afford it, regardless of how desirable stuff like this might be to all of you.

As it stands now, a precious few members send a few hundred dollars, year after year, but it's always the same guys and never enough to make a difference... and making a difference is what I really want to do! It's not fair to any of us.

After 12 years, I don't think it's too much to ask. You'll certainly get it back in spades! There's only so much one old guy can do by himself.

Thanks,

Geoff

[cliff]

Geoff did you get the money I sent from the small number of calendar sales?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

(1) Cliff: check your PMs.

(2) Gentlemen: Let me use this as a comparison. I don't know how many have used these over the years, but any decent dating site on the internet will demand $30 per month just to participate. I'm only asking for $20 per year, which is peanuts by comparison (and likely more useful in the long run! ).

Cheers,

Geoff

[Mark W. Tonner]

I’m curious Geoff, what is the approximate monthly operating expense of the forum, I think that would give people a better understanding of the monetary requirements that are needed to keep MLU up and running. A membership fee of $20.00 dollars a year works out to approximately $ 1.67 a month per member.

Cheers

[aj.lec]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

I’m curious Geoff, what is the approximate monthly operating expense of the forum, I think that would give people a better understanding of the monetary requirements that are needed to keep MLU up and running. A membership fee of $20.00 dollars a year works out to approximately $ 1.67 a month per member.

Cheers

Well that is mighty good value then
One way of looking at that equation is it is less than half the price of one cup of store coffee per month .Imagine the amount of cups of coffee or tea that have been consumed going through the threads of mlu each year