HUP with a difference. . .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

. . . spot the anomaly!

[Phil Waterman]

Among other things it appears to have front hubs and assume axle of a two wheel drive, exhaust pipe location behind rear wheel, lower than a normal HUP, but the body work looks too smooth no welds visible.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

it appears to have front hubs and assume axle of a two wheel drive

Ten points to you, Phil!

As far as I know, this is one of a number of HUPs so converted, probably by placing them on C15 chassis in Belgium where they were used by a breakdown support vehicle by a tramway operator.

This example was subsequently acquired and restored by a tramway museum in Holland. It represents the regular HUPs used as busses shortly after WW2 by HTM, the Hague Tramway Corporation.

H.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Just checked the registration and it is also registered as a 6 cylinder DIESEL.

It does look smooth without all the seems on the body..

Alex

[Phil Waterman]

I think there is a vintage picture of one of these conversions, now for the fun what archive did I find the picture in.

Cheers Phil

[Brian Gough]

Hi Hanno, Phil and Alex - a bit more,

In the November 15, 2002 Wheels section of the Ottawa Citizen newspaper, there was an article titled "Canada's other unsung wartime achievement" by Roy Thomas, an Ottawa writer.

The article briefly gave the story of CMP production and featured (including a picture) this particular C8A HUP, serial #3844515759, build date Oct 4, 1943 that is on display at The Hague Public Transport Museum (HOVM).

"After the war, this truck was first used by the Belgian city of Brussels. In 1980, serial 3844515759 was acquired by the HOVM and was then restored to represent the CMP vehicle that plied the Ypenburg - Rusijk bus route."

The article goes on to say, "The Canadian Military Pattern vehicle is a "runner" or will be if a vital part for one of the axles can be found."

Cheers,

Brian

[lynx42]

Must have to carry 2 spare wheels. 8 studs on the front and 6 on the rear.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Just checked the registration and it is also registered as a 6 cylinder DIESEL.

Alex,

I did the check to and see it is listed as a "CHEVROLET CHU 441 Diesel". Probably a Perkins or one of those other once popular diesel conversions?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

I think there is a vintage picture of one of these conversions, now for the fun what archive did I find the picture in.

Phil,

I recall reading about it in Wheels & Tracks magazine, must the no.1 or 2 issue?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Brian Gough

The article briefly gave the story of CMP production and featured (including a picture) this particular C8A HUP, serial #3844515759, build date Oct 4, 1943 that is on display at The Hague Public Transport Museum (HOVM).

"After the war, this truck was first used by the Belgian city of Brussels. In 1980, serial 3844515759 was acquired by the HOVM and was then restored to represent the CMP vehicle that plied the Ypenburg - Rusijk bus route."

Brian,

Interesting to see this HUP made it to a newspaper article in Canada!

With so many modifications - drive line, engine - it cannot be more than a "representation" of the HUP that was used as a bus.

Will ask one of my uncles if they remember seeing it, as it must have passed the bridge in front of their house in Rijswijk!

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Must have to carry 2 spare wheels. 8 studs on the front and 6 on the rear.

Rick,

Well spotted! That means it has a converted HUP driveline, instead of the HUP body having been transferred over to a C15 4x2 chassis. Alex noted it has a diesel engine. The Belgians went through great lenghts converting this HUP!

H.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Brian, I agree with Hanno....really interesting to see this HUP was in a newspaper article in it's country of Birth!

"CHEVROLET CHU 441 Diesel".

Hanno......that type "CHU 441" almost looks like the former Belgian licence plate (?).


HUPs were very popular as buses here in Holland after the war, along with Austin K2's with AFS body and also Bedford MW's and Fordson WOT's, although those last two received a whole new rear body. My father is very interested in classic trains, buses and trams and I remember seeing pictures of the original HUP Ypenburg in one of his books. I will see if I can find the pic.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

hmm, that was easier than I thought. Here is an online picture of the (or one of the?) HUP Ypenburg bus.



source: www.openbaarvervoerinboskoop.nl

[cletrac (RIP)]

With one HUP rear end and one 15cwt it must get in quite a bind in 4x4 mode with the different ratios. They probably wonder why there's no power in 4 wheel drive.

[S LATHERON (RIP)]

Looks like this is a standard 4x4 variant and the body work more original.Nice to see such good use of a well built vehicle. Original MINI BUS when compared to the Yellow and white bus in the background at the bus museum in first post.
As for spare wheels i guess they would keep a selection at the service garage and take a replacement out to the vehicle, After all the pace of life would be that much slower!
Thanks for sharing the excellent information. I wonder how many of these HUP buses are lurking in barns ready to be discovered.

[cmperry4]

Spiffy - wish my bodywork was a smooth as that.

[maple_leaf_eh]

What's the problem? Its not parked outside the Hammond Barn, that's the problem!

[Phil Waterman]

Mark and Terry

Raise and interesting restoration question about military vehicles, how good should the sheet metal finish be? In this case were the HUP had a long and productive life after military service the level of body finish and paint work is extremely appropriate. Just as the CMPs that were proudly used by garages were the quality of the sheet metal refitting was an example of the shops ability.

But should smoothing out the welded seams of the standard production be the rule? Or filling in the dimples of the original spot welds? Doing an invisible seam on a panel where you are replacing rust then yes that to me is appropriate.


Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Excellent guys, thanks.

Here's another modified HUP. Give it your best!

Hanno

[Alex van de Wetering]

I recall reading about it in Wheels & Tracks magazine, must the no.1 or 2 issue?

Phil, Hanno. I was reading the very first issue of Wheels and Tracks yesterday.......and there it is on page 10!

Alex

[Keith Orpin]

Quote:
But should smoothing out the welded seams of the standard production be the rule? Or filling in the dimples of the original spot welds? Doing an invisible seam on a panel where you are replacing rust then yes that to me is appropriate.
Phil Waterman

No,No,No ! Let us not forget that these and countless other vehicles produced for WW2, were manufactured for one job and one job only - to win the war. By smoothing away welds, and filling in spot welds, you are removing it's originality, character and detail. Personally, I love to see a vehicle that shows it's spot welds and original welds, that to me shows that who ever restored it, is dedicated to presenting it as it would have been manufactured. To be honest, I reckon the paint jobs we do are probably far better than were originally applied
That's my two penneth worth !
Regards
Keith
P.S. I know you would'nt smooth out original welds, or fill in spot welds, would you Phil ?

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

No,No,No ! Let us not forget that these and countless other vehicles produced for WW2, were manufactured for one job and one job only - to win the war. By smoothing away welds, and filling in spot welds, you are removing it's originality, character and detail. Personally, I love to see a vehicle that shows it's spot welds and original welds, that to me shows that who ever restored it, is dedicated to presenting it as it would have been manufactured. To be honest, I reckon the paint jobs we do are probably far better than were originally applied
That's my two penneth worth !
Regards
Keith
P.S. I know you would'nt smooth out original welds, or fill in spot welds, would you Phil ?

The war time manufacturing processes were designed to make these vehicles to last a year or two at most and speed was the essence to produce them...get them to the places they were needed as soon as possible..Time and money was short so extra time and money steps were eliminated..no better example can be scene today than to look at the war time manufactured Russian military equipment ..casting marks ..welds..gas torch cuts..all unfinished..just sand blasted..maybe not..and painted..That was one of the very first things I noticed when I saw my first T 34/76..It left me with the life long picture in my mind of war time speed of production..and some of these vehicles ,as far as I am concerned should be left exactly as manufactured when restoration is complete..It tells the wartime struggle with time ..material..labour and money..



Some of these manufacturing flaws are still seen today ..Take a look at a Russian built Belarus tractor the next chance you get..the welding spatters are painted right over with no attempt to smooth..fill ..or hide any seams or joints..the tractor engine is the same V12 Diesel engine used in their T series tanks..waste not..want not...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

By smoothing away welds, and filling in spot welds, you are removing it's originality, character and detail. Personally, I love to see a vehicle that shows it's spot welds and original welds, that to me shows that who ever restored it, is dedicated to presenting it as it would have been manufactured.

I totally agree. See the picture, lovely isn´t it. Mind you, this is a post-war Swedish quality vehicle!

[Bob Carriere]

I bet you the spot welder operator had a production counter on his machine and a hard quota to maintain......

Boob