RAAF blue colour code

[Dianaa]

There has been a thread on the AuLRO/REMLR "Sorry not Landrover but Blitz-WW2 RAAF Colour code" asking for the colour code for CMP that went straight into RAAF service.

There has been no definative answer in a week so I'm asking the question here where people may actually know and I can pass it on.

Diana

[cliff]

It is my understanding that WW2 vehicle supplies were all in the same colour, "Service Green", regardless of what service they went to when new. What happened Post war as vehicles were refurbished is anyone's guess but this is when most RAAF (& Navy?) vehicles would have reverted to RAAF Blue in colour. Full rebuilds may have meant stripping all existing paint and starting again.

[Mike K]

hi Diana

I support Cliff's thoughts. It wasn't until post WW2 that the fleet colour schemes came into being e.g., RAAF blue/grey . And the army DBG . The history of Holden book , refering to 48-215 sedans , gives the RAAF fleet colour 1948-53, as Blue-grey paint.

The PMG is listed as Fawn , oddly.

The GMH colour movie , made in 1944, clearly shows CMP;s parked at Fishermens Bend , Melbourne, with the "RAAF" script on the cowl , the overall colour of the trucks is the WW2 green .

Mike

[warren brown]

I think you're right - during WWII it's very likely the RAAF colour was green - however about 15 years ago, Warwick Lord had for sale, a spectacularly original RAAF F60L (from memory - I somehow don't remember it as a Chev - and I think Warwick had scored it from a property in western Queensland) with an original body, disintegrating tyres etc and all the RAAF markings on the cowl. It still had the square petrol tins on it ...yet it was an unusual colour, almost a yellowy/lime green. The paint was old, flat and chalky but from what we could see original - the truck was so good that other than getting it to run you wouldn't have touched it. But I remember the strange colour being a point of discussion and it wasn't that the paint was a faded OD - I'd love to know what happened to it...

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by warren brown

It still had the square petrol tins on it ...yet it was an unusual colour, almost a yellowy/lime green. The paint was old, flat and chalky but from what we could see original - the truck was so good that other than getting it to run you wouldn't have touched it. But I remember the strange colour being a point of discussion and it wasn't that the paint was a faded OD - I'd love to know what happened to it...

Hi Warren,

I also remembered that F60L, and how original it was. Do you recollect the drivers sun visor with RAAF stenciled on it? Would have loved to have taken it home, even better if it had been a Chev

Here is a photo of it....

[warren brown]

Yes Richard - I forgot about that tray, but the cab and everything else was terrific - and yes - I do remember the sun visor with RAAF stencilled on it - how good is it you have a photo. I wish I'd photographed the billyo out of it then - how was I to know I'd one day end up with a Blitz of my own...

[warren brown]

It's funny how your mind plays tricks - In my minds eye that Blitz had an original body...gawd, old-timers already...

[warren brown]

Or was that tray-back 'original' to that truck? Not factory, but made for some specific military role - any ideas?

[cliff]

Originally Posted by warren brown

Or was that tray-back 'original' to that truck? Not factory, but made for some specific military role - any ideas?

looks like an all steel original rear body. Probably had drop sides and the photo shows them off.

[warren brown]

Thanks Cliff - I'm still learning...

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by cliff

looks like an all steel original rear body. Probably had drop sides and the photo shows them off.

Warren and Cliff,

I was staying with Warwick at that time so had a good look around it and I distinctly recollect him telling me it had wooden sides, which had obviously deteriorated and that all the metal work from the sides was laying on the body. The photo is not as sharp in colour as it could be, think that was 1997, so not far off when you said 15 years ago, Warren.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Warren and Cliff,
I distinctly recollect him telling me it had wooden sides, which had obviously deteriorated and that all the metal work from the sides was laying on the body.

Thanks for that Richard. I never thought of it having wooden sides but I knew the bed and wheel wells were original.

[Dianaa]

Thanks mates!

Will pass the message back (although I don't know if they'll be interested in the wooden dropsides!)

Diana

[Keith Webb]

Here's an ex RAAF wooden dropside GS body.

[Dianaa]

The above dropside trayback appears to have been service green over-painted blue. In the original AuLRO post the author suggested the vehicle in question had never been painted service green.

If the vehicle in question went through a post-war re-build would they have stripped the paint back to bare metal/wood before painting blue?

I know that after the war my uncle bought up CKD kits to use for his general carrier business (my father actually got a 15a off his cousin for his building company). Would these have been pre-painted service green or just finished in primer? And if so did the RAAF build war surplus trucks into fleet colours before entering service?

[Keith Webb]

So Alan has posted my pics elsewhere? Fair enough - it's his vehicle.

He was saying it appears never to have been painted khaki which is interesting - certainly the blue was applied over a red primer on the body so you may be correct in saying it has had a post-war rebuild, but I've never known one where the paint was stripped on a CMP.

I think Alan will find the cab was originally khaki when he pulls it apart.

Originally Posted by Dianaa

The above dropside trayback appears to have been service green over-painted blue. In the original AuLRO post the author suggested the vehicle in question had never been painted service green.

If the vehicle in question went through a post-war re-build would they have stripped the paint back to bare metal/wood before painting blue?

I know that after the war my uncle bought up CKD kits to use for his general carrier business (my father actually got a 15a off his cousin for his building company). Would these have been pre-painted service green or just finished in primer? And if so did the RAAF build war surplus trucks into fleet colours before entering service?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by warren brown

... yet it was an unusual colour, almost a yellowy/lime green. The paint was old, flat and chalky but from what we could see original - the truck was so good that other than getting it to run you wouldn't have touched it. But I remember the strange colour being a point of discussion and it wasn't that the paint was a faded OD

I'd say it was Khaki Green #3, as from what I have seen that colour fades into a far more yellow shade than the later Olive Drab.

H.

[warren brown]

Thanks Hanno and Keith - when you say khaki green (and I know this is probably a futile thing to try and explain in an email) is this a light colour like say, British pattern webbing? (and I know there are a million variations on this).
I just remember as a kid, the Humbrol model paint listed as khaki was a pale, sort of grey/green - it was nothing like olive drab. Sort of Steve Irwin shirt colour. (How's that for a colour reference?)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by warren brown

Thanks Hanno and Keith - when you say khaki green (and I know this is probably a futile thing to try and explain in an email) is this a light colour like say, British pattern webbing? (and I know there are a million variations on this).
I just remember as a kid, the Humbrol model paint listed as khaki was a pale, sort of grey/green - it was nothing like olive drab. Sort of Steve Irwin shirt colour. (How's that for a colour reference?)

Warren,

I can only quote paint colour expert Mike Starmer who describes Khaki Green No. 3 as "a dark rich brown looking yellow–green". Now, for all I know this could be the colour of Steve Irwin's shirt
So the best advice I can give you is to mix up the colour according to Mike's instructions on the MAFVA site; that way you will know you have a sample which is matched to original equipment samples.

HTH,
Hanno

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all - Khaki Green No.3 had the coding as B.S.381-1939. Humbrol model paint code 30 should give you the colour. I have used gallons of this colour and get it made by Protec paint in semi-gloss. I originally sourced the colour from a protected area on a Bren Gun Carrier restoration.

Bob

[warren brown]

Thanks Hanno and Bob - just to be a bloody pain -Bob, do you have a photo of something painted in this colour? Just to get my head around it... thanks, Warren.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

- Khaki Green No.3 had the coding as B.S.381-1939.

Hi Warren,

Here is a link to the BS381 - 1939 colour chart.
http://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS381%20Colourchart.asp

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Warren - feast your eyes. The Hino is also KG3 and before somebody asks the disruptive is Light Stone, Humbrol model paint code 121.

The formula below is Protec Paints and was for a mix of timber paint. I presume it would be the same for the equipment enamel I use.

Khaki Green No. 3 Timbercote
• 4l yellow base
• B: 9Y, 20
• D: 1Y
• F: 34
• A: 1Y, 20

Here are the official Military instructions.

Military Board Instruction MBI 94
15th August, 1940.
Adoption of “Paint, Khaki Green, No. 3”

All Military vehicles, artillery equipment and general stores, previously painted in service colour will be painted in Khaki Green, No. 3

Mechanization Circular No. 301
2nd. January, 1942.
Mechanical Vehicles- Camouflage Disruptive Painting.

Approval to paint all mechanical vehicles in disruptive camouflage. The “Geneva” cross on A.A.M.C. vehicles must not be obliterated.

Gas-resisting paint to be used along with camouflage paint, Type B, Australian Standard Specification, Emergency Standard No. (E) K.507 to be used for colours other than gas-resisting.

Basic colour of vehicles for use in Australia is Khaki Green No. 3: those for the A.I.F. being Light
Stone B.S.C. 61 (British Standard Colour No. 61). Both gas-resisting.

One coat only of disruptive paint is to be applied, either by brush or spray, on top of the basic colour, in either the following three-tone or two-tone designs. All edges are to be kept sharp, it may be necessary to paint the boundary between two colours to obtain sharp definition.

The colour combinations employed:

Bob

[warren brown]

Richard and Bob - what a wealth of information and expertise. It's just that I've painted my Blitz in OD - which looks fine - but I've suspected it needs to be in a brownier colour and the variations on these things seem to be either stark of subtle. (I do love the half-track Blitz and the Hino's colour scheme. Tell me, the two tone dog underneath the truck - is it in Lamp Black (Humbrol 4223) and Arctic White (Humbrol 8872)?)

[aj.lec]

On my RAAF C60L the colours run Olive ,Blue then Olive again over the top
Last coat of olive is over the ARN's though so most probably post war

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Warren - you are correct with the paint codings for D'For the dog (D for dog).

Bob

[Garry Collins]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

So Alan has posted my pics elsewhere? Fair enough - it's his vehicle.

No pics have been posted anywhere else. I am the person who posted the original request on AULRO on behalf of the owner of the vehicle. I am the owner of a Landrover FC101 and know little of WW2 vehicles.

The AWM said

"The RAAF vehicle colour scheme during WW2 was a derivation of the Army camouflage scheme, actually first produced/concocted by the boffins from Depart of Home Security in late 1941. Army vehicle depots routinely camouflaged RAAF vehicles at the beginning of 1942, before the RAAF got their act into gear to do it themselves. RAAF vehicles in forward areas were either camo painted or left green overall. Up to the end of 1941 the RAAF did not operate Blitz trucks: they began receiving them during 1942.

The blue colour was the RAAF’s post-war/1945 onwards colour, a dark blue for staff cars, etc, and a lighter RAAF Blue for trucks, lorries etc (except airfield vehs, which were yellow overall). Undersides of mudguards were often black, as per instructions.

The other question, of course, is what configuration the Blitz is in: ie door type, hatch type etc. Is the RAAF registration number visible? All this info will provide a better clue to the correct colour scheme, and indeed if the Blitz is actually ‘wartime’, as RAAF took delivery of new Blitz trucks right up to the end of 1945, well after the war had technically finished.

RAAF painting directions for vehicles are difficult to find. They are buried somewhere in a small mountain of RAAF files in the National Archives."

Thanks for all the comments and information - it has been very instructive.

Garry
Canberra