Question for David Hayward: captured COE truck

[Bill Murray]

Hi David:

This photo is currently under question at the Axis History Forum.

I have suggested it might be a GMC COE out of Alexandria, others have suggested it may be a Ford Marmon Herrington COE which were also made in the time period suggested by the Afrika Korps location of the photo.

The RHD is the sticky part, as I am personally unaware of any GMC or Ford MH COE vehicles with RHD made as dedicated military vehicles.

Both the Ford and the GMC (or Chev equivilant for that matter) have the same ventilation door on the side of the motor hood and generally the same curve leading to where the radiator mask is missing. The little one can see of the front wheel is not similar to the GMC wheel from the US but many importers purchased chassis/cowl, chassis/cab without wheels and tyres so that may not be an issue.

Would you or any others on MLU have any input??

PS: There is also an outside chance if it really is RHD that it is a civilian Italian vehicle but none of us has come up with any candidates.

Cheers,
Bill

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

The RHD is the sticky part, as I am personally unaware of any GMC or Ford MH COE vehicles with RHD made as dedicated military vehicles.

Both the Ford and the GMC (or Chev equivilant for that matter) have the same ventilation door on the side of the motor hood and generally the same curve leading to where the radiator mask is missing.

Bill,

I would say it was a Ford, features on the engine cover point to that, the vent door for one, as it is larger and further forward than the GMC, in my view. As for RH drive, it is not unusual for negatives to be reversed on printing.

regards, Richard

[cletrac (RIP)]

Those sure look like 1940 Ford truck headlights

[Bill Murray]

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

I too had raised the question of a reversed photo earlier on and I think that may be the answer. Sadly, there seem to be no numbers or letters on the photo that would give us a positive answer.

The wheels, which I have looked at a bit closer, seem to be closer to Ford than a GM product and Cletrac is correct, the main headlamps look awfully "Fordy".

Not to leave our GM expert, David, outside of the question, but how in the bloody, bloody would a COE Ford MH of any type end up in Africa???

I have little/no info on Ford in Egypt or any of the other North African countries during that time period, other than that I am aware that Marmon Herrington did do a lot of business with Iran, for example, and perhaps some Ford MH vehicles snuck in there. The other MH Iranian vehicles were non Ford.

I love a good mystery and hope you guys can continue to post some ideas.

Cheers
Bill

[cliff]

1941 Ford Cab Over.

I found the photo below from a google search at http://americandreamcars.com/1941fordcoeprojtrk0609.htm

apart from a hard cab it appears to be the same make and model.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I think it's a Ford 011W or similar:http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...1940trucks.htm

Or is it a '39?

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...1939trucks.htm

and that the neg has been flipped!

There is no way I think that it's a GMC...and it would have lhd anyway! Egypt drove on the right at the time and the Alexandria-based GM Near East Limited and the Ford importer (a dealer I think; it was not a subsidiary) imported lhd vehicles only. The Ford facility imported both British, German and US vehicles, though I think that all the Cologne exports were cars (Eiffels).

I suspect that this was a captured or sequestred civvy truck. Both importers exported around the region, including to Libya. I am discounting any later than 1940 as US exports would have ceased that year.

I should add that apart from the British War Department and Air Ministry, that acquired Chevies from GM NE, the Egyptian Government also purchased vehicles. It is possible that they also had Fords but I have yet to see any printed evidence.

[George McKenzie]

I can,t find anthing in my truck spotters guide that looks like this .The American Truck Historical Society puts on pictures of trucks for the members to guess what they are and in most cases they can tell the right answer .The hood on this truck doesn't look like a North American truck .It is too flat on top .If you need .I can do it for you .George

[Steve Guthrie]

According to my copy of Fred Crismon's 'US Military Wheeled Vehicles', its a 1939 or 1940 GMC AFKWX-352 COE 2.5 ton 6x6. The vent door and the curved accent line along the hood and down the side of the (missing) grille are diagnostic.

Never built with RHD, the photo must be flipped.

Steve

[Steve Guthrie]

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=GMC+AF...:429,r:14,s:26

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

I too had raised the question of a reversed photo earlier on and I think that may be the answer. Sadly, there seem to be no numbers or letters on the photo that would give us a positive answer.

<snip>
Cheers
Bill

Bill

Do you have access to the original image?

If yes, or a high resolution scan, may be able to reveal the uniform correct or reversed. Remember that the buttons on a male shirt the left button hole overlays the right button and I assume German uniforms would be the same.

Check the drivers shirt or the front passenger's collar.

Diana