Concerning Transmission and Transfer Case Rebuilds

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

If you are rebuilding a Transmission or Transfer Case or for any reason have it apart and clean of gear lube out of all the bearings and shafts, remember to check the fluid level again after driving the vehicle a short distance.

Reason I mention this is when I rebuilt my HUP I prelubed (wiped all bearings with gear lube) transmission and transfer case but did not fill them with lube until they were painted. When I filled them up to the correct filler hole I then took the truck for a drive when I came back check them for leaks and pulled the plugs. The gear lube level was way down from what it had been an hour earlier.

This has never been a problem when changing the gear lube, suspect what is happening is that the gear lube is thick enough that it is not filling all the bearings and shaft spaces as it first goes in giving a faults full level. A little drive time and the spaces get filled.

Just a thought to stick in the back of your mind.

Cheers Phil

[Corey Myronuk]

As I'm still waiting for my manuals to come in the mail..what is the specified grade of lube for the transmission transfer and final drives.I was under the truck the other day (cab 13 F60L) and pulled all the plug to make sure any water hadnt found its way in..my transmission is out in my shop ATM and appears to have the same lube as the diffs.The oil in the diffs looked like molasses.. while ordering up some inner axle seals from Macs i noticed a product called 600W oil.looked very much like whats in my truck.Is this the right stuff?

Thanks

[Phil Waterman]

The MB-C2 Lists 80 or 90 Hypoid for Gear Oil the MB-C1 says the same for differential and transmission but list a separate one for the transfer case all the manuals talk about thinner lube for winter use. The GM 1940 manual for regular cars and trucks list summer S.A.E. 90, S.A.E. 140 or S.A.E. 160 the for winter down to 0F S.A.E. 80 below 0F S.A.E. 80 with 10% Kerosene. The one Ford manual I have give 80-90. I read all of this as meaning use the thinnest gear lube that doesn’t leak out to quick.

I have taken all my trucks over to S.A.E. 85W140 which seems to work pretty good, I do regular IR temperature readings on various components after long drives in my CMPs as a way of spotting problems the Transfer Case runs the hottest but the highest seen 140F.

If you can put the lube in warm, in the summer I put the 5 gallon pail in the sun for the day, in the winter I set it in front of the shop furnace out let.


What weight gear lube has been discussed in several different threads, generally related one theme it leaks. Below is a list of some those threads to get the collective wisdom.

www.mapleleafup.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-13708.html
www.mapleleafup.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-5435.html
www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12301&page=3 Steering

As to the 600X listed on MAC wish they had a real product data sheet on it.

Cheers Phil

[Corey Myronuk]

from what i've read ford trucks from the same era and earlier all were supposed to run the 600W oils.and chucks trucks site had a page up that linked nearly all cases of leaks where the seals were new and correctly installed to not using the 600W oils.
As with multi visc gear lubes (and not having the manuals yet to check) we need to be carefull as some contain sulphurs that will attack brass and bronze..i have to get the 85-140 out of the tcase in my m37 for just that reason.hope it hasnt wreaked too much havoc.

here's a link to the mobil site
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...nder_Oils.aspx

and some info on other suppliers

Additional Information:
Both Shell Oil and Texaco make lubricants that are very close to the original 600W product in both protection and viscosity - they REALLY slow down the transmission gears to make shifting as nice as an original car. The Shell product is called "Valvata" - The other is Texaco "Meropa 680". You might be interested in the following posted by Dave Bockman:

There have been many comments on steering box, transmission and rear-end lubrication using a 600 viscosity oil. Here is one more I like very much. Texaco "Meropa 680" The viscosity is 680 and it meets AGMA 250.04 requirements for gear oil. I have conducted a few non-scientific tests with this product and others and have found it to be more viscous and has better "stick" than the product sold by Vintique INC. "gear lubricant" for $3.75 per quart. (It even looks better than their black stuff!!) It is available in 35 lb. pails (5 gallons) for $24.00 (That is a little over $1 per quart). The product code is: 02342. -- Rick Black


I'll stop in at the chevron cardlock when i fuel up tomorrow and inquire about this and what they offer as well as prices.This may be the ticket for curing the leaking/grease filled steering gears on the m37's as well.

Corey

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Corey

Please keep us posted on what you find out about the 600W as used in Fords. I'll be particularly interested in what period Ford or Ford products it relates to such as 1930s-1940s, prewar or early post war.

I've just started on a non CMP big Ford flat head project a 1949 Lincoln which uses an F8 Ford truck engine.

The Mobil site has some interesting information, have to print it out and take it with me to talk with local supplier, they tend to pretend something doesn't exist if they don't stock it. Wonder if the 600w is what was used in the steering boxes.

Cheers Phil

[Corey Myronuk]

i did some more digging last night and it seems that for anthing with spur,spiral or bevel gears the 600w is whats recomended.even in winches and such.the 600w clings to the gear tooth face to cusion the impact of the next tooth on its inital contact where a gear lube is shed and just leaves a film for the sliding of the helical gear surfaces.
so my best guess would be gl for helical transfer cases wih the correct additive package for yellow metals and hypoid rear ends. im leaning toward the texaco 680 for spur and bevel..looks like the best combination of properties to me.i saw a reference to 1200w in steering gears but that may be too stiff in an evironment outside of the philipines..haha.the numbers 600w 1200w etc arnt a measure ov viscosiy they are product names..so get the data sheet.ill forward all the ifo i can..very cool on the 8eq project..im in proces of building one for my f60l

[Corey Myronuk]

ok.i stopped in at the chevron cardlock on united blvd in coquitlam and ordered up a 20l pail of the 680.

price was $79.80 it may come in tomorrow if they got my order in in time.tuesday is their shipping day so worst case itll be a week to wait.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Corey Myronuk

the 600w clings to the gear tooth face to cusion the impact of the next tooth on its inital contact where a gear lube is shed and just leaves a film for the sliding of the helical gear surfaces.

Whenever I rebuild a gearbox or transmission and it it likely that it's going to sit around for some time before he vehicle is back together and on the road, I use Chainsaw Bar Oil as an assembly lube. It too is sticky and will cling to gears, shafts and bearings for long periods, so that any movement until actual filling with gear oil will have all surfaces protected. The coating also prevents rust scale forming on parts within the gearbox that are not sitting in oil. I have seen differentials ruined by the top half of the crown wheel getting a rust coating from sitting for long periods outside exposed to moist air. If you plan to do this, drain the diff oil, part fill with Bar Oil and rotate all moving parts to ensure they get a coating. There is no need to completely remove or flush out the Bar Oil when deciding to put the gearbox/diff back into service. Just a quick, basic drain and refill with fresh gear oil.

[Corey Myronuk]

i agree Tony.the gooey 600W is most likley the reason the gears and bearings in my CMP look brand spanking new and most of the 50's dodge 4.89 rear end chunks ive taken out of trucks that have sat a number of years all had crusty ring gear at the least.

[Corey Myronuk]

Well i picked up my pail of meropa 680 a few days ago..$79.50 plus tax for 20L..