CZ numbers

Andy Beevers · #1 29-10-12, 23:25

Is there any one who can help gathering information on CZ numbers?

I recently bought a C15A in the guise of a 1950's bright orange recovery truck, I have been carefully stripping back layers of paint, this has revealed the battalion and regimental details, I have also found the CZ number with an L number below and then the white star below that, Lovely, they are both the same number which is CZ6185910 and L6185910. The C15A was built in November 1944.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Regards
Andy

chris vickery · #2 30-10-12, 02:26

Andy, all Canadian vehicles had numbering beginning with a C prefix. British vehicles were assigned a L prefix.
CZ was given to trucks in the 15cwt range. Heavier lorries usually were CL prefix.
I suspect your truck was assigned to both Canadian and British units over a period of time, hence the CZ and L prefixes.

Richard Farrant · #3 30-10-12, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Andy, all Canadian vehicles had numbering beginning with a C prefix. British vehicles were assigned a L prefix.
CZ was given to trucks in the 15cwt range. Heavier lorries usually were CL prefix.
I suspect your truck was assigned to both Canadian and British units over a period of time, hence the CZ and L prefixes.

Hi Chris,
Unless I have misundertood your post, the letter L was used by the Briitsh only for Load carring vehicles over 1 ton payload. It would have been mistakenly painted on the CMP 15cwt. The whole lettering system was British, with Z being trucks up to 1 ton, L over 1 ton, X for trailers, C for motorcycles and so on, if used by Canadian Forces then whatever vehicle class letter was used it was prefixed with C. There is a listing available of the Chilwell Census Numbers and their allocations to UK, Caandian and other allied forces under British command.

Alex van de Wetering · #4 30-10-12, 11:22

Andy,

Do the numbers appear on both doors? As Richard pointed the "L" prefix on a 15cwt is unusual, but if it appears on one door only, than the door could have been replaced with one from a 30cwt or 3 tonner at some stage......allthough in that case it is somewhat strange that the number is the same....

Alex

Harry Moon · #5 30-10-12, 20:05

isn't CZ used on wireless trucks?

Richard Farrant · #6 30-10-12, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

isn't CZ used on wireless trucks?

Harry,
Only if they are 15 cwt trucks.

Andy Beevers · #7 30-10-12, 20:34

Thanks for the replies,
I have to admit the other door is still bright orange, I haven't started on it yet.
The doors are original to the vehicle, (quite a statement to make considering I wasn't there!) from the history I have of the vehicle, condition and paint layers they all seem to match up pretty well.
The numbers are in two rows:

CZ6185910
L6185910
Then a rather large white star under the numbers,

why would there be two rows showing the same number?
I thought I had seen british vehicles with a number starting with an L, but am not sure how they are classified, The description for Canadian vehicles is as has been suggested.

From the insignia on the front panels it would appear to have been in the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division, 12th Field Regiment (SP)

I am not sure of the vehicle's original designation, it may have been a wireless or GS, the rear body was removed in the early 50's and had a recovery crane fitted, it may have been done in the late 40's, the crane was manufactured in 1938, Holmes wrecker serial number been verified, the cab is rust free and original, no repairs. The use since the war and storage after use as a recovery has kept it very well indeed, and 6-8 layers of paint!

I am finding all this information fascinating, please any little snippet, no matter how trivial it may seem, will be appreciated.

Regards

Richard Farrant · #8 30-10-12, 21:42

Hi Andy,
Your Truck comes up in the WD Census number list produced by RAOC Chilwell, as Chevrolet 15cwt 4x4 GS, Contract no SM6439 Z6185311 to Z6185998

Harry Moon · #9 30-10-12, 23:01

I think we borrowed a British truck put a 19 set in it and a canadian radio truck prefex on it.

Andy Beevers · #10 31-10-12, 00:06

Hi Richard,
that is excellent, thank you very much.
With the contract number is there any way of gaining more info?

Does any one know how to downsize a jpg picture to put on the forum?

Regards

Richard Farrant · #11 31-10-12, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Beevers

Hi Richard,
that is excellent, thank you very much.
With the contract number is there any way of gaining more info?

Does any one know how to downsize a jpg picture to put on the forum?

Regards

Hi Andy,
One of the forum members had done great research in to Canadian wartime vehicles. His name was David Hayward and he sadly passed away last Easter. Here is a link to one of his posts and it refers to the contract of your Chev, it is worth searching the number further on this forum to pick up any more info.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312

regards, Richard

Hanno Spoelstra · #12 31-10-12, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Beevers

I recently bought a C15A in the guise of a 1950's bright orange recovery truck

You mean that truck in "YUK" orange?!?

Welcome to this forum!

Hanno

hrpearce · #13 31-10-12, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Beevers

Does any one know how to downsize a jpg picture to put on the forum?

Regards

Andy, some computers have resizing built in, right click on a picture and see if resize is an optun. If not you can resize in paint or send the picture to yourself in an email selecting to send it in a reduced size. Hope this helps.

Andy Beevers · #14 01-11-12, 00:35

Richard thanks for the link, interesting reading, he will be missed!
Andy

Andy Beevers · #15 01-11-12, 00:41

Hi Hanno,
Yes the YUK orange is the one, a census was taken and it would seem the majority of people think it should stay orange, I am doing all the chassis and running gear in military, well it was anyway, the inside will be done back to original military.
But the outside will be repaired and made good, and painted orange.

At the war & peace show I met a few people from Belgium who actually remember the vehicle when it was working as a recovery truck, hopefully they will be back in touch.

Regards
Andy

Andy Beevers · #16 01-11-12, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Andy, some computers have resizing built in, right click on a picture and see if resize is an optun. If not you can resize in paint or send the picture to yourself in an email selecting to send it in a reduced size. Hope this helps.

Hi Robert,
will give that a go, one of them should work
Regards
Andy

Richard Farrant · #17 01-11-12, 00:54

Hi Andy,
David did a lot of in depth research on vehicle production by Chevrolet and Ford. Check the following document, I think it is page 99 that refers to your contract number;
http://www.gmhistorian.btinternet.co...evdatabase.doc

regards, Richard

Andy Beevers · #18 02-11-12, 14:39

Hi Richard,
thanks for the try, alas page doesn't open.
Andy

servicepub (RIP) · #19 02-11-12, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

I think we borrowed a British truck put a 19 set in it and a canadian radio truck prefex on it.

From my research the use of the census number was very strictly controlled. Canada rented a number of trucks from the Brits early in the war and these were NOT to have the 'C' added. Later, when some of these were bought outright the units were ordered to apply the prefix.
After the invasion these details were not a high priority and British vehicles could be in use by Canada without the prefix being added although there was an attempt to add this if the vehicle was in an Ordnance shop.
This vehcile could have been provided to the Brits and then transferred to Canada. Why they didn't just add the 'C' prefix to the existing number remains a mystery.
In essence, the 'C' indicated ownership and not the user.

Clive

Andy Beevers · #20 02-11-12, 14:56

Think this may have got it,
Please excuse the non artistic black lines drawn around the white bits, I was trying to keep what I had without losing too much.

Andy

servicepub (RIP) · #21 02-11-12, 15:01

Looks like the L number was applied first and then, when it came into Canadian hands they saw there was no room to add the C. If the L was an error this also gave Canada the opportunity to correct this. Can you tell if the L number was overpainted prior to the painting of the C number?

Hanno Spoelstra · #22 02-11-12, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

Looks like the L number was applied first and then, when it came into Canadian hands they saw there was no room to add the C. If the L was an error this also gave Canada the opportunity to correct this. Can you tell if the L number was overpainted prior to the painting of the C number?

I seem to recall a thread which treaded on the subject of a batch of trucks being incorrectly labelled "L" instead of "Z".... Now, how can I find it back

Hanno

Hanno Spoelstra · #23 02-11-12, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Beevers

I thought I had seen british vehicles with a number starting with an L, but am not sure how they are classified, The description for Canadian vehicles is as has been suggested.

For the record, British War Department (WD) Numbers were alloted in line with vehicle classes listed below:

A - Ambulance
C - Motorcycle
F - Armoured Car or Scout Car
H - Tractors (ie Artillery tractors)
L - Lorry (30 cwt or heavier)
M - Car (staff car, jeep, etc.)
S - Self-Propelled Gun
T - Universal Carrier or Tank
X - Trailers of all types
Z -Truck (15 cwt and smaller)

Vehicles built under Canadian contracts had a "C" added in front of the British WD number.

Hanno

Andy Beevers · #24 02-11-12, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

Looks like the L number was applied first and then, when it came into Canadian hands they saw there was no room to add the C. If the L was an error this also gave Canada the opportunity to correct this. Can you tell if the L number was overpainted prior to the painting of the C number?

Hi Clive,
it would seem that both numbers were visible at the same time, there doesn't seem to be any over paint on either number, I am hoping to get onto the next door over the weekend, I need to confirm it has a similar pairing of numbers.
The CZ number became more visible than the L number, I need to confirm the L, the door was sanded a little bit prior to becoming many colours, the L shape is there, however only a little paint remains.

There is also a bit of writing in cursive on the front drivers side panel, it may have been a name, but I really can't tell at all, shame...

Andy

Andy Beevers · #25 02-11-12, 22:43

Thanks Hanno, a lot of the detail is starting to click for me now, the lettering was standard through out, with a C added for Canada. Therefore there is no way little truck should have an L, unless...
It shrunk
The bloke writing was either wearing the wrong glasses or having a bad day (it does happen)
Or, being such a new truck at the time, it may grow into the new number.
Simples'