Brit MK 2/3 Ferret Swords + Ploughshares Museum

[Robin Craig]

Mike,

I have started you a new thread as the forum is getting messy and this tidies it up.

In response answer to your questions posted here http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14724 I reply as follows:-

-carb kits are available in the UK from the usual suspects

-That vehicle needs a very careful going over as it has languished for a long time without proper maintenance.

-Frankly I don't trust the previous maintenance that was done, I honestly believe from when I went to look at it not long before you bought it that the fluid flywheel, gearbox and transfer case fluids are suspect as to what was used. The previous owner, and the one before that, whom I have also met were barking up a very strange route when it came to putting "oils" into it to make it run

- It likely has a leak in one of those spaces as it did not have proper drive function in any gear. I suspect the fluid flywheel is leaking and that constant adding of fluid is not the way to go as far as a fix. It needs to be pulled and sorted.

- Is it under cover of a building now or is it sat in the "tall grass storage"?

R

[Gunner]

Hi Robin:

There was no room in the barn as we had filled it up as part of the annual winterisation the week before I bought the Ferret, so she is sitting on the hardstand with a tarp over her for the interim.

I have some work ahead of me to check everything over and try to locate the leak in the fluid coupling. I've been reading through several fora absorbing what I can about the Ferrets and I have noted that there was a lot of print about the correct fluids and their various applications. The concensus seems to have settled on the 0M13 replacement being ISO10 or ISO15.

Gary was kind enough to supply a 20l pail of the ISO15 for the coupling and it has been topped up recently. Nonetheless the leak has to be tracked down which means, ultimately, pulling the powerpack to see whats what. I'll likely find some interesting artefacts under the engine!

Reading the Ferret manual, I get the impression that the fluid coupling leaks are frequently the gaskets on the filler plugs. I hope this is the case as they are a lot easier to replace than splitting the coupling to put a new seal in it. In the interim I've ordered the fancy filler plug tool as I don't want to lose a plug into the flywheel.

I was at a military museum in Largo, Fla yesterday and they have a Ferret as well. I had forgotten my camera so I'll go back and take some shots for the Registry chap, Matt and I'll share them on this forum as well. http://www.armedforcesmuseum.com/

Ubique! Mike

[Gunner]

We MLUers frequently comment on the charity and helpfulness of our fellow MLUers. I suspect that the ROT (rusty old truck) and the creeping olive drab disease must affect us all in a similar way. I have met some very friendly and helpful folks on all sorts of military vehicle fora as I have tried to track down the ARN for my Ferret over the past month and a half.

For those not familiar with it, the ARN is the British equivalent of the CAR/CFR number used in Canada. Unlike our seven digit code (year year-type type sequential number sequential number sequential number ie 54-77321) system, the ARN is a digit digit letter letter digit digit system ie 01AA23. Up until the eighties it had some coding assigned to combinations as they were assigned in blocks to purchasing contracts and certain letter codes were reserved for specific things such as "RN" was Royal Navy. After some point in the eighties it became purely sequential as vehicles were accepted into service so you could have a firetruck have an ARN one digit different from say a new tank. Thankfully my Ferret predates the new system.

The British Army did not record hull numbers in cross reference to ARNs so if your data plate is missing, as is mine, all you have is a hull number and, depending on when it was built, a rough date of manufacture (early Ferrets had no date on the hull number plate which is permanently welded to the hull). Adding to the confusion is that the ARNs were only painted on and not stamped anywhere permanently so if there is no ARN under the layers of paint... yer screwed!

All this to say that on several sites on the 'interweb' I was able to track down the block of ARNs assigned to Ferrets produced in 1963 (mine is 8/63). Some chatting with the chap who runs the Ferret Registry, Matt Taylor, revealed that there were a few with hull numbers close to mine which might give a hint as to the ARN. I met another great guy on HMVF who has a hull number close to mine. What I have so far is:

Hull 3323 ARN 18EA36 is a gent named Paul on the HMVF (griff66);
Hull 3327 ARN 18EA40 is our friend Jeff here in Ottawa. His and Paul's hull number and ARN are four apart;
Hull 3343 ARN 18EA56? is me and 20 more than Paul and 16 more than Jeff making me sure I'm 18EA56! Now the kicker...
Hull 3651 ARN 18EA64 is Matt so there must have been a break between mine and his somewhere to account for the big change in hull numbers vs ARNs. Matt is hoping to puzzle this out as the registry gains more details. There is also the chance that Matt's hull number is actually 3351 which fits the sequence exactly.

Paul tells me mine is likely one of 67 Mk 1/2s built to contract 6/FV/2146 in 1963. I expect the modification to Mk2/3 came later in the 60's or 70's.

Interesting that Jeff's and mine are 16 apart and both ended up far from home but both in Ottawa.

There is a chap in the USA who is planning to run off a batch of repop data plates so I hope to confirm 18EA56 and the contract number soon so I can stamp all my info onto the repop.

In the interim, mine will be 18EA56 until I learn differently and I'd like to give many thumbs up to the dedicated guys who run the various registries around the world. Without their databases anyone missing bits of important info for titling and registration would be lost. I encourage us all to register any old beasties we have on the appropriate registry... it pays off!

Tub thumping done... sherlock holmesing continues!

Cheers! Mike

[Robin Craig]

Mike,

the MLU audience is small on Ferrets.

Can I suggest you re post you last on HMVF where there are more Ferret owners who might benefit.

Also, FYI Brian Asbury asked me to copy for you a manual I have from him.

R

[Gunner]

Robin:

I'm looking forward to getting a copy... no rush though as I won't be pulling power packs until the temperature rise considerably!

Mike

[Dana Nield]

Mike,

I'd tell Beth that you bought a Ferret, but she'd go out and buy you pet supplies.

Cheers!

Dana

[Gunner]

Hi Dana:

Why don't you drop by tomorrow for a hour and enjoy the Ferret up close. We can discuss events and the upocoming season's calendar.

Hugs to Beth! Mike

[Gunner]

Hi Dana:

Why don't you drop by tomorrow for a hour and enjoy the Ferret up close. We can discuss events and the upocoming season's calendar.

Its in Mum and Dad's garage. Call my cell and I'll give you directions.

Hugs to Beth! Mike

[Dana Nield]

Hey Mike,

We might be in the area tomorrow so I will give you a shout!

Cheers!

Dana

[Andy Foulds]

Mike,

I have a few manuals here including an early 1957 Brit user manual

http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/manuals.htm

This one has some useful tips as well

http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/mnuls/...car_precis.pdf

Tar for those pics as well

[Gunner]

Hi all: Firstly, Andy- thanks for the links, I downloaded your manuals when I first contacted you... thanks from all Ferret users for doing that, what an excellent resource and what a great website.

Well I've been laid up since Tue last after ungoing knee surgery. I can tinker and work upright for a few hours each day but have to spend a fair bit of time in a lazy-boy (life is rough ) with the knee well supported.

Nonetheless a bit of work has been done with the help of some keen young volunteers (thanks Alex and Tim) who came out on Sat and helped tidy up the beastie. After getting the heater started we went inside to review the manual on basics and start-up procedure and then went back out to the now nice warm garage and started with an orientation on controls, hatches and Ferret finger! (I would hate to send some teen home with a shortened digit! ). The boys got a walk about and then some time in both seats operating all the controls and opening and closing hatches. This was used as an excuse to lube all the hinges and moving bits as well as to free up some parts that were painted shut.

Of course no orientation is any fun without starting the beast up so we freed up the carburetor starting thing-a-ma-gumby (choke) and got the beastie running in quick order. Lubing the linkages and the choke really made a difference in the start-up and idle. Still running rough on acceleration so I'm going to follow Robin's example and blow out all the fuel lines and add extensions to the lines where they enter the tanks. If that doesn't help then I'll look at carburetor tinkering.

The boys helped haul out the seats and gave the floor and 'cockpit' area a good vacuuming and scrubbing. A wipe down with degreaser got it ready for the aluminium paint (see before and after photos) and the day ended with the first coat of paint on the floor and lower sides. Formal masking and painting higher will have to wait for a few days. Amazing how many nuts, bolts and other odds and ends there were scattered about. I had to buy a few new fine thread nuts and bolts but there were almost enough on the floor to fill all the holes or empty studs on all the shields and floor panels!

Yesterday I had some help from another chum, Mike, (yeah, two Mike's are OK but add a third and it gets confusing! ) and we got the driver's seat back in, amazing how well its works when everything is lubed up! I then sat for a while with a small brush and a tin of red paint and touched up all the bits that some poor squaddy painted up years ago. Adds a splash of colour and makes it easier to find certain controls and knobs with your periferal vision. Mike helped me confirm what the boys had done on Saturday... all the lights and electricals work properly, tho' the horn wires have clearly has too much sun! I have to have a look at the manuals again as I can't figure out where the spotlight plugs in (I put a new cable on my spotlight but it lacks the plug so another thing to add to the shopping list. I suspect that the windshiled wiper socket may serve double duty.

Its kind of nice being home for once (not deployed) tho' I could happily leave winter behind... I'm a bad Canadian: the only snow I like is under my skis (downhill of course, let gravity be your friend!) and the only ice I like is in my Scotch!

Longer term work is the pulling of the power pack to reseal the fluid flywheel (Ferret speak for torque converter) which leaks rather badly and of course a sand coloured paint job to return it back to a Recce/FOO vehicle of the 1st Regiment, Royal Horse Artillery on Op GRANBY (the Gulf War).

After six weeks of detective work with help from all sorts of folks on several fora (Matt Taylor (keeper of the Ferret Registry) and Andy ("Alpine" on this forum) deserve particular praise) I was able to determine categorically that my wee beastie is 18EA56. An email to the Tank Museum in Bovington resulted in scans of her service and maintenance cards which showed she was a Sapper from 1967 to 1974 and then transferred to the artillery after a base workshop overhaul in '74. Initially a Mud Gunner in 49 Fd Regt, RA she became a Horse Gunner in 1982 and her last 11 years of service ('82-'93) were with 1RHA in the BAOR (British Army On the Rhine). The layer of sand paint shows she was prepped for Op GRANBY but I still need proof she deployed, so the next step is to find some shots of her in the desert. Emails to British fora for ex-servicemen may net something and I'm sending off a letter to the CO of 1RHA asking if the regimental photo albums might have anything.

Cheers! Mike (currently living the old Irish blessing: May those who Love us, love us; and those that don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles: So we'll know them by their limping!)

[Robin Craig]

Mike,

I do not advocate "blowing out" the fuel lines as any kind of permanent fix. Infact it was Al Duffy who did that. so I am being misquoted I would say.

The banjo bolt extensions are a five minute job.

As per my email from the other day the fuel tank should be pulled and cleaned and then you will be starting from a known point and work forward from there.

My 2 cents worth

The picture shows the pack lifting frame made as per the drawings in the manuals but materials substituted for what he had kicking around. You will want to make one of these when you get around to spring.




R

[Robin Craig]

The spotlight plugs into the socket beside the slave socket behind the smaller round cap.

The two pin plug required is also a Land Rover part and can be had on ebay for pennies. It is worth making up a pig tail to that plug with a polarised quick connect for other 24 volt items such as a rotating beacon which can be mounted into the antennae mount adjacent.


R

[Robin Craig]

Mike,

I would warn you that painting the bevel box top plugs is the start of a road to ruin.

There is a small spring loaded vent in the top. If the vent gets painted over by an enthusiastic volunteer then pressure can build in the bevel box and blow seals.

Just thought you should know, your front left bevel box looks well painted over in picture 3.

R

[Gunner]

Hi Robin:

Sorry if I misquoted... I'll go back and reread the post!

Thanks for the suggestions and advice. I will definitely be making up a lifting frame after seeing how it simplified your pull.

I'll take a look at those breathers and make sure that they are cleaned up. There are definitely a lot of layers of paint on this critter!

I'm putting together my wants/needs list and will PM you tonight or tomorrow.

Cheers! Mike

[Alan Duffy]

Funny I don't remember mentioning on MLU that I blew out the fuel lines.

In addition to a number of things I did was to blow air through the reserve fuel line and then through the main fuel line. The notion was to see if air would pass through. This was done from the fuel tank selector switch which I had removed to check it out. I wanted to see if there were any blockages. Before I go any further I must state that I of course removed the gas cap before I blew any air through the lines.
With the reserve tank I could hear the air bubbling up through the fuel, therefore no blockage. With the main tank the air would not pass through the line, therefore blockage. I removed the fuel tank plug and drained the main tank and then removed the banjo bolt, which I totally destroyed getting it off.
The banjo bolt was totally clogged with sediment. Not wanting to remove the fuel tank I was able to scrape/brush the insides and bottom of the tank. After modifying a shop vac I spent a great deal of time vacuuming all the loose sediment up. I poured in a small amount of fuel which drained quickly, let it dry and then vacuumed again. It was amazing how much stuff came out of that tank.
I put the drain plug and new banjo bolt ( Marcus Glenn UK) back in and added fuel and crossed my fingers. She fired right up! I think I have solved my rough running Ferret problems....maybe?
If I had more time or patience I would have pulled the fuel tank and had it fully cleaned and I would have put an copper tube extension on the banjo bolt.

So that's what worked for me.

[Alan Duffy]

Hi Mike,

Just reading through this thread I can imagine how concerned you were about finding it's British ARN.
Ironically I owned your ferret for a few days but the deal fell through and I never took possession. At that time I remember thinking about carefully removing layers of paint in the two known spots where the numbers would have been. I am sure the movie make-over that was done simply painted over. Multiple layers of paint are very common.

Maybe I am stating the obvious but just thought I would throw that in.

Al

[Gunner]

Hi Robin and Al:

My thoughts on blowing out the fuel lines were an amalgam of what I had read on HMVF, Ferret Heaven, G503 and here on MLU. Robin mentioned blowing out the lines in a post on HMVF on 06-09-11 and it must have stuck in my head along with Al's comments. The important thing I took away from all the comments was to not get buried in the minutia of carburetor and ignition circuits until the basic fuel supply was verified. I'm going to tap into the fuel system and add a boat tank fitting (most of my vehicles have been so modified) as it allows me to move vehicles around the yard without leaving stale fuel in the tanks. Some of the critters haven't had fuel in their own tanks in years!

I really appreciate the collective wisdom that can be found on the 'interweb' and I'm glad that folks are so willing to share their hard learned lessons with the rest of us. The Ferret is different enough that I'm facing a whole new learning curve just reading the books! Heck, the British manual terminology is so different from US manual terminology that it brings to mind Churchill's famous quip about the English and the Americans being two peoples separated by a common language!

I only have the heated space for a few weeks so I'm focussing on quick and dirty stuff at this point. A tidy up of the most obvious points and some rust scraping are high on the list. Narrowing down the rough running problem and doing a fluids replacement/top-up are important and the biggie is to sort out the leaking fluid coupling. As I don't want to overflow my drip pan, I've decided that the fluid coupling will be babied until the warm weather returns and I have the time (and the warmth) to pull the powerpack. If time in the garage permits I may start the paint touch up and start turning the wee beastie into a tan tiger.

As part of the identity search I had started sanding the rear engine panel and could make out some symbols but they were difficult to decypher until the online conversations narrowed the ARN down to the 18EA series. I haven't sanded the area above the driver's hatch yet but hope to get to it soon. One interesting marking on the right side of the rear panel is a foot high black "A" or perhaps its an upsidedown "V" which was the allied vehicle marking in the Gulf War. Strangely enough I've found some vinyl stick on lettering "U.S.A. 2B3673" on the panels aft of the driver's side hatches. I'll contact Brian Asbury to see if these are a relic of film making at sometime in its past.

I now have the Ferret's history from 1967 up to 1993 and I can work backwards with some gaps: me late 2011, Gary MacKenzie 2010-2011, Peter Wilke xx - 2010, Brian Asbury 1994-xx. Al where do you fit in?

Well, back to the shopping list!

Cheers, Mike

[Robin Craig]

He fits in between you and MacKenzie, I drove it on the street outside Gary's place.


R

[Gunner]

Hi Robin:

I kind of figured so. I'll PM the 'needs' list tonight.

Cheers! Mike

[Gunner]

Hi Robin:

PM sent.

Cheers! Mike

[garmack]

One of the only regrets I have is selling the ferret I always wanted 1 and had to for reasons sell it. Mike is a perfect person to let it go to and have never heard back that he had any regrets. I sold it once to AL and as per Robins advice he backed out ( glad he did! ) then Mike showed up cash in hand and off it went! best part is we are now neighbors so I can see it anytime and would buy it back in a heartbeat!!

[Robin Craig]

Maybe this is an opportunity for fractional ownership of a Ferret?

Then it would get used regularly and the costs of maintenance shared?

R