Dodge WC54

[DaveCox]

OK guys, my turn to ask the questions.

Was the Dodge T214 radio truck built on the same chassis/cab/body as the WC54 ambulance with 121" wheelbase.?

Any use of either of these vehicles by anyone other than the US?

Thanks in advance.

[Pete Ashby]

Dave

The answer is yes to the frame, they are the same truck without the stretchers.

The British army had a very few, I don't think it was via an official contract though, but perhaps David H can confirm?

Pete

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The only wireless trucks I know of were a few C8 Wireless to S/M 2029...any of the other trucks mentioned could have been Egypt direct delivery.

[DaveCox]

Thanks.

I was looking for a different use for the old Italeri model of the WC54 ambulance. Unless I can find a pic or two of the radio truck I'll have to make it as per kit.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Dave,

Try aksing the same question at the WW2 Dodge Forum.

Regards,
Hanno

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Can I retract what I said Dave? Mike Beckett of Manchester sent me some stuff relating to assembly of Canadian vehicles by Alexanders of Edinbirgh Limited. The little drawing and details that are relevant relate to the S.M. 2129 'DODGE 1/2 TON 4 x 4 AMBULANCE WC.27' [T-215-A-123] with 123" w.b. whereas the later 1942 Model WC.54 [T-214-B-121] had a 121" w.b.

It seems that there were a lot more Dodge and Fargo contracts than I knew of previously, and this is the latest lists...note the B List has some Dodges under 'Fargo' as they were built by Fargo Division.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...k/wardodge.htm
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...k/warfargo.htm

Can anyone add/clarify any of the mystery trucks please?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Forgot to mention that from looking up my copy of US contracts for Dodge vehicles there were possibly 250 in the 2129 Demand.

The Radio Panel Delivery WC.42 T-215 had a 116" w.b. whereas the T-214 W.C.58 Radio had a 98" w.b.
The W.C.27 T-215 Ambulance had a 123" w.b. and the later W.C.54 T-214 a 121" w.b.

[DaveCox]

Many thanks for your help on this David.
I've also found a pic. of a preserved vehicle which appears to use the same body as the ambulance ( there is an ambulance in the same shot), but is marked as belonging to the uS Signal Corps. Even if not strictly original at least I can say that it exists!!!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Cheers Dave..how's the job front??

Did anyone find the Dodge/Fargo listing useful?

[DaveCox]

Hi David,

A few interviews, couple of secind interviews. One day the right job'll come up and my face will fit..........

[gordon]

A little information is a dangerous thing....

The T214 3/4 ton WC 54 Ambulance was all that they made on the production line, in fact the conventional ambulance and Weapons Carriers accounted for over half the Dodge production of that basic chassis.

In the half ton series, (T207, T211, T215) the only 'radio' truck was the T215 half ton panel van WC 42, (650 off) but that was made for the Commonwealth forces as all the US radio units were installed in Command and Carryall trucks.

When the 3/4 ton T214 series came out the US had radio as standard in the WC 58 Command Radio, but the WC53 Carryall and WC 56 / 57 Command recon were 12 volt trucks with radio fittings which meant you could install one easily. Late in WW2 all these truck types were discontinued and the Weapons Carrier went to 12 volt, which meant if you wanted a radio truck you just put a radio in your new Weapons Carrier.

So, where did all the 'WC 54 - like' radio trucks come from then? Simple really, WC 54s were very common, per the production split mentioned above, so they threw away the stretchers and painted over the red crosses on a bunch of ambulances to get what was in effect a 3/4 ton radio panel truck - but no sign it was ever official. Logically whoever did it should also have changed generator / starter / regulator / bulbs / guages and put on some extra bonding to be able to use 12 volt systems, but I don't know if they did.

The T214 'radio truck conspiracy' was perpetuated by the model companies who took the basic casting for the WC 54 model and just painted it to suit any number of applications - I've seen them modelled as ambulances, radio trucks, fire trucks, and civilian contruction trucks.

There's nothing wrong with having a WC 54 marked up as a radio truck, in fact the Norwegians used a bunch of them that way, and I'm sure I've seen WW2 photos of them being used that way, but when they left the Mound Road production line they all had white crosses on, and if you have the original dash plate it'll have AMBULANCE on it. Wayne Works did all those bodies, and the body tag would be 4239-xxxxx.

I feel SO much better now.

[DaveCox]

Thanks for clearing that up Gordon. I've been sent a photogragh of a WC54 'Signal Corps' truck by a very kind gentleman 'down under' which will be the basis for my model.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Dave,

I think I know which preserved vehicle you mean. I have seen pictures of this Signal Corps-Ambulance and I think it belongs to a Belgian or French collector. I don't know if it is an original radio van and if it is fitted with radio equipment.

Do you know the modelingbrand "Bilek"? Bilek is a firm which produces some of the old Italeri kits. I have the 15cwt CMP and Dodge 6x6 from them. These kits are exacly the same as the Italeri sets, but a friend of mine recently bought a Dodge WC54 Signal van from Bilek!! This is the Italeri Ambulance, but a resin radio-antenna is provided and a different decal set!!
No interior though! My friend wants to fit a resin radio set from ADV/Azimut.
I'll ask him if he has any info on the existence of the real vehicle.

Alex

[DaveCox]

Thanks for the offer Alex, but I'll be making this one with the rear doors firmly closed - I'm not that good at interiors. I've already made up the serials/bumper codes and 'signal corps' logos in Powerpoint file to use as home-made decals so I'll definitely be making this truck, original or not.
Take care on some of the Bilek re-releases - I picked up this Italeri ambulance in a shop for £9.99, some of the Bilek kits are on sale at nearly twice that price !.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Dave,

I found this one on http://home.zonnet.nl/dodgewc54/



Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Oh,

and this one :




source: http://home.zonnet.nl/dodgewc54/

Alex

[gordon]

... for moving my post to where it should have been.

These images are all nice trucks. they all appear to be standard WC 54 trucks mechanically, right down to the rear step on the last one, so I suppose it was a question of using whatever was available for the purposes you wanted.

During the war most of the weapons carriers would have been up the sharp end till they were 'used up' and any casulaties reconditioned into the same service. Ambulances had weatherproof full metal shells and would have been easier to radio-screen, though it's worth noting that even the modest radio used in the WC 42 meant it needed a roof fan for cooling purposes.

At least the WC 54 had an oversized heater, which probably made it even more desirable for the job. Rear suspension was tweaked for a more comfortable ride at the expense of ultimate capacity, but then radio gear isn't as heavy as a load of ammunition. They could easily have made a radio version of the WC 53 Carryall, but since the Carryall was in itself outfitted for radio not much point. I do consider that the WC 53 would have been a lot more useful with conventional van doors instead of the transom tailgate / liftgate, particularly for radio use.

Gordon

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

There is a British order 1940-41 1-Ton T-116: CANADIAN DODGE DC2-20 T-116-120 120” w.b. and DC2-33 T-116-33 T-116-133 Serials ‘# 8916601 to 8918281.

Anyone got any idea please as to which contracts?

[gordon]

the T116 120" are pickups (only body on that chassis) and all the 33 or 133 references are to the 133" wheelbase which could be either pickup or panel van.

All are 4 x 2, don't know the Canadian designations tho'

Gordon

[Larry Hayward]

Here's the real thing - not a converted WC54 but a Dodge T215 WC42 in use by the Army Broadcasting Service - B4 Mobile Station in Italy, October 1944.

Note that the T215 has dual wheels at the back and has both a roundel on the hood and a star on the roof, which together with the disruptive camouflage suggests that this vehicle had been in use since the early part of the campaign in Sicily. The others look rather clean!

Photo credit is IWM London- photo posted for educational purposes and not for resale.

[Barry Churcher]

Hi Larry
I could be wrong but that camo truck sure looks like a Chevy.

Barry

[cliff]

the camo vehicle shown is a Chevrolet wireless truck and not a Dodge.

according to TM 9-2800

Truck panel delivery, 1 1/2ton, 4X4, K-51

manufacturer Chevrolet (model G 7107)

Limited Standard

used by signal corp

Regards Cliff

[gordon]

These Chevrolet 1.5 ton trucks were issued with Ben Hur trailers with the big generator in. In fact somewhere here I have a link to the Library of Virginia shot of dozens of them on a pier waiting for loadout;

http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/cgi-bin/ph...VTLS/SC/02/073

Gordon

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Models:
1941...
YP Panel W-398-QM-8278 1941-G-4112
ZP Panel W-398-QM-9402 1941-G-4105

1942...
NG Panel W-398-QM-10328 1942-G-7105
NG Panel W-398-QM-10912 1942-G-7105
NG Panel W-398-QM-11510 1942-G-7105
NG Panel W-398-QM-11546 1942-G-7105
NG Panel W-398-QM-12396 1942-G-7105
NG Panel DA-W-398-QM-243 1942-G-7105
NG Panel DA-W-398-QM-421 1942-G-7105

Note the last two are Defence Aid contracts..but for whom??

According to my listing the G-7107 was a 1942 NJ Cargo Less Winch!

[cliff]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
According to my listing the G-7107 was a 1942 NJ Cargo Less Winch!

David I just copied what was in my copy of TM9-2800 so I am not sure what the model code should be.

regards
Cliff

[Larry Hayward]

Whoops!!! - I should have looked at 'Bart's bible a little more closely!

But thanks guys for putting me in the picture

[DaveCox]

Thanks for the help guy's here's the model:

[gordon]

You did a good job of that.

I'd probably want to see it towing a Ben Hur though, or at least with the racking loaded with 'stuff' as the Signal Corps never ran an empty truck ?.

Gordon

[PaulH90]

Interesting discussion on the coversion of ambulances to radio trucks. A friend of mine bought a WC54 ambulance last year, but we guessed it had been used as a radio truck at some point before being converted back. The giveaway we thought seemed to be hollows in the roof where we suspected the aerials were fitted. These now cause a problem as they leak in the typical British rain.

The aerial mounts shown on the photo submitted by Alex show differences to where we thought the aerials were located. If the hollows are not for the aerials, what were they for?

Perhaps I should be asking this on a Dodge forum rather than here on CMP forum.

Thanks

Paul