B s p

[Michael R.]

Yes, BSP, or British Standard Pipe. Not to be confused with another BSP. Apparently there are two of them, one parallel, the other tapered. Therefore BSPP and BSPT.
Doug L. and I were discussing the thread size found on bogie spindles. The good book FUC-03 sez they are 7/8x14 B.S.P.. (see page 153 or 156)

Hmmm........ never a dull moment with BSF, BSW, UNF, UNC and now BSP(P). In my mind's eye I can see those Brit engineers smiling ... "exactly, my dear Michael".

A quick look through the MLU archives provides an assortment of thoughts on the thread size, but I could not find any post or "thread" (the MLU pitch) that revealed more than what the FUC-03 manual states. Initially, I thought the manual must be wrong, as the spindle thread O.D. measure better than 30mm. But no, it appears the 7/8 BSP thread relates to the bore size of a pipe for which the thread is suitable. The nominal size is somewhat larger than the stated number.

The drawings for making a spindle drift from a discarded early series TL334 spindle do not mention the thread. The spindle nut TL 335 - CTL 335 is simply called a Nut - spindle, without a size stated.

Now to find a die nut in 7/8 x 14 BSP(P).

[rob love]

We have the same thing with National Pipe threads here in North America. We have NPT and NPS....tapered and straight. Tapered will tighten up after a few turns, and straight will go through just like a nut and bolt.

A quick google will give all the specs to cut the BSP parralel threads. Even a few suppliers of the taps and dies, but I would go with a lathe myself. When you get to these larger sizes, by the time you buy the taps and dies, then the handles to match, you are well onto your way to buying a decent used lathe.

[Lynn Eades]

Over here the two BSP threads are referred to as:
BSPP parrallel
BSPT Tapered.
Without the bits and pieces in front of me, I am doing the hear say, rumour, and opinion thing, but I think the bogie axle thread is all UNS (without looking up a chart) and I think they are completely interchangeable with the Australian carrier (about the only bits that are, save the bearings)
So Michael, get your charts, guages, and an axle out, and have a look.
Give us the dia. and tpi, or the result
UNS at 1 1/4" is 14 tpi. Is that it?

I have looked and found a chart for BSPP,(and it makes more sense now) with a 14 tpi thread as you say Michael R, so kindly disregard the ANS reference.
Like Rob says, Chase the threads in a lathe.

[Michael R.]

The thread O.D. measures up over 30mm and TPI is 14 .

[Ron Pier]

These days I'm more used to dealing with motorcycle pipes of 1/4-5/16-3/8 BSP threads. Back in my Dry Cleaning days we had to thread 1/2-3/4-1" and larger pipes for steam. I guess these bogie wheel tubes were dealt with as per a plumbers pipe.

Ron

[Ben]

Having had a look I think they are all parallel threads. The conduit uses a pipe thread too.

We had the bloke at work last Friday who services all our compressed air and vacuum lines. He looked at the conduit thread and had nothing to fit in his van. We suspect its a size that's fallen out of favour today. The pipe thread sizes can get confusing as Micheal has said, the size listed isn't the thread OD as on a bolt.

Thread cutting on a lathe can produce any thread you desire. As long as you have the pitch and TPI info you can turn an internal or external thread to your chosen diameter. This is how I did the filler necks on the fuel tanks.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Ben the thread on the conduit is "conduit" thread the older electricans had the gear I think it is all 16 TPI, and one size matches with UNF (5/8???)

[Michael R.]

I forgot the other thread profile in addition to BSF, BSW, UNC, UNF, BSPP and B.S. Conduit;
FOC. Former Owner Choice.
You know when someone identifies one while trying to sort out some bit on the carrier as they mutter "FOC" with assorted emphasis.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

Now to find a die nut in 7/8 x 14 BSP(P).

Hi Michael,
Hope this is of help to you;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSP-DIE-NU...-/110617414636

[Michael R.]

Yes, thanks Richard. M.

[eddy8men]

i'm sure I read somewhere that bsp and bsw were the same thread but I am no engineer so don't hold me to it.
however I will go to my shed and have a look for you Michael as you never know I might have what you need in my bucket of assorted old taps and dies

rick

[Michael R.]

Thanks Rick, e-mail sent to you.

I understand the BSP series follows the standard, non-modified Whitworth thread profile.
What I have not found is a 7/8 x 14 in other than BSP. Sir Miles Axlerod from Cars would be impressed. A trail of redundant threads.
"And then I remembered what they said about old British Engines, if there ain't no oil under 'em, there ain't no oil in 'em."

[Lynn Eades]

Rick BSW in that size would be about 8 TPI

[Lauren Child]

Don't forget BSC as well (British Standard Cycle) used on motorbikes as well as pedal bicycles.

[Stew Robertson]

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree HOWL
That thread is an engineered thread specified by the designer 1 .187 x 14 threads to the inch This is not unusual when design work is going on
The engineer has specified what it is doing and the weights and torques required
And the shaft will be designed to those specifications
Remember guys there was not a lot of metric going on in Canada during the war yeas
just my opinion again and you are all welcome to put me in your sights

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree HOWL

Remember guys there was not a lot of metric going on in Canada during the war years

Sorry Stew, but it might be you barking up the wrong tree. Michael copied from the Canadian Carrier parts book that the spindle was 7/8" BSP. Remember the Carrier was a British design and build and Canada supplemented production, British Standard thread forms were used for interchangability which all made sense. Some of the early Canadian built Carrier had British components fitted.

As for metric, you may be surprised to know that metric sized bearings were used by Ford in the gearboxes.

regards Richard

[Stew Robertson]

Give me a little while to take some pages out of the machinists hand book
This has been my bible for the last fifty plus years

[Michael R.]

According to the Ford-Windsor parts manual, - - - - - (Canadian carrier parts bible ) - - - - - the 7/8 x 14 BSPP for the spindles is not the only BSPP thread used on the carrier.
The other (that I am aware of) is where one would expect to see it, on the oil cooler.

If this BSP discussion turns out to correctly be BSP, will I get a free lunch to replace the wager I lost over my opinion on the production technique used for the long shaft of the starter crank?
Is the major centre portion of the starter crank handle hollow or solid? 9/15: (edit:main shaft, not crank handle)
I came in second.

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, why should you doubt that it's BSP?
If your ever over my way, I'll buy you a pie

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, why should you doubt that it's BSP?
If your ever over my way, I'll buy you a pie

Crank handles:
I supect the early one piece ones were solid (smaller dia.)
The Canadian ones would be hollow. The splined bit is welded on. With the bigger dia., they would be very heavy other wise.

[motto]

For some strange reason spark plugs have been standardised in metric, 10, 14, 18 and 22 mm that I'm aware of.
22 mm is close to 7/8" dia.
I believe that in earlier days some were BSP.

David

[Stew Robertson]

here is a quote from the machinist handbook
My question is why would you a loose fitting thread or a free fitting thread to fasten an axle in . yes you guys are talking the same threads but not machine cut threads where they are designed to hold a load for a to attach a wheel where they can be torqued to the right spec.
this is a
PS I think you owe me lunch again

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

here is a quote from the machinist handbook
My question is why would you a loose fitting thread or a free fitting thread to fasten an axle in . yes you guys are talking the same threads but not machine cut threads where they are designed to hold a load for a to attach a wheel where they can be torqued to the right spec.

PS I think you owe me lunch again

Your book is referring to American National Pipe threads, we are talking British Standard. Proof is shown in the original parts book that it is BSP. If a male and female thread are cut to the correct tolerances, there is no reason for them to be "loose fitting", that was referring to pipe nuts, this is a pipe thread form used elsewhere. In my work experience I have also come across BSP used in other roles, not pipe.

You might have to go hungry, no lunch yet

[Richard Farrant]

The real reason for using BSP for that diameter is TPI. Given the diameter, in BSW the nearest size would be about 7 tpi, in BSF it would around 9 tpi, so it makes sense to go to BSP and use a standard pipe diameter which give 14 tpi, much more sensible.

[Paul Dutton]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

The real reason for using BSP for that diameter is TPI. Given the diameter, in BSW the nearest size would be about 7 tpi, in BSF it would around 9 tpi, so it makes sense to go to BSP and use a standard pipe diameter which give 14 tpi, much more sensible.

And more grip!
I use BSP (no extra ' P' required) every day on hydraulic fittings! Anything up to 2" in normal use.
JCB, BENFORD/ THWAITS, etc, hell even some Japanese stuff like kobelco and Kubota use them.
Most European stuff is metric and Americans like Jic and Orfs (O Ring Faced Seal) and NPT which is close to bsp but differs on pitch slightly!
CAT use an inverted cone fitting like jic but with a bsp thread and komatsu the same but with a metric thread!!!
Confused??
Welcome to hydraulics, and don't even get started on the FINE and LIGHT threads!!!!

[Michael R.]

A Canadian made CTL series spindle with a BSP 7/8 - 14 die.

[Richard Farrant]

No argument there Michael !

[Stew Robertson]

You can call it what you like but it is a engineered speced machine cut thread
it could have been any thread 14/16/18 what every but it is still a 7/8 -14 thread machine cut and not with a die just like lots of equipment are built with none standard sizes and threads the BS is the only part that is right

[Michael R.]

The things people write to get out of a $6.98 CAD lunch special.
There are no emoticons for someone stirring the pot.

[RichardT10829]

I have one of those Die's if you need one Ross.