216 water pumps

[harrygrey382]

Do the civilian 216 water pumps fit the CMP motors? As in ones like this - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/310766410...84.m1438.l2649 I assume you may have to change the pulley

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Harry

Sorry for the non-definitive answer, the Chevy 216 was in production long enough to have a number of changes. Your link to the one on e-bay is an example of one of those changes if you look at the back side you will see that it had TWO discharge holes to the block while the war time 216 as used in the CMP (I've seen) had a SINGLE larger discharge. There are also differences in the length of the shaft and the size of the pulley.

I have photos illustrating these differences that I will find and post. The pictures will help spot want you need to be looking for.

Correction, the back plates on the water pumps can Not be swapped. But check your engine if it has ever been replaced it may be the later two hole design. Also many of the pulleys can actually be pressed off and swapped for the correct one.

Matching the pulley size is very important if you are running the CMP 6 blade fan, the many of the civilian pumps have a much smaller pulley which spins the fan much to fast, noise and danger of failure. Take a look at the pictures on my 235-261 conversion page and you will see some of the pulley issues http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ifications.htm

Edit- Add more pictures of back of two styles of pump.
1st Picture both water pumps
2nd Picture later style with gasket
3rd Picture early style with later gasket note the mounting bolts don't line up.

Side point of interest, you need the later style pump if you are going to do the pump conversion on a 235 or 261 to the lower pump position.

Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Harry

I did a little searching of parts suppliers in the US with mixed results, it appears that both styles of pumps are out there. As often seems to happen the US parts change earlier than the Canadian so depending on the source you may have to look at 1937-1940 instead the actual year of the truck.

Here are some part numbers try using:

The single hole back discharge numbers I have found are as follows WP 58357 and 58-357 showing US years of production 1937-1940 both car and truck.

While the two hole discharge pumps WP 58125 mixed car and truck from 1940-1955

I'll try and come up with some more part numbers I've got one list of 15 different aftermarket part numbers. But I don't know yet which pump the list matches because it doesn't have either of part number listed above.

Also will look for dimensions on the pulleys and shaft length.


Cheers Phil

[colin morley]

Hi In regard to your water pump kits, they are both available from Ross Prince Hervey Bay Qld. Single and double holes - use your own pulley regards Colin

[aj.lec]

Another thing you need to watch is the casting on the top side . Some of the US pumps are cast "higher" and these do not allow accelerator linkage to pass from one side to the other as it is blocked by the cast

[harrygrey382]

Thanks a lot guys, phil in particular. So I'm after a one hole, do all one holers have the correct mount pattern and the lower casting? Or is it possible to have one hole and either the wrong mount pattern or high casting?

I know about the rebuild kits here, it's just they come in well over $100 after postage costs and whole good pumps go for about $25 in the US... At $100 I'll have to keep using my leeky pump (temp gauge works, doesn't go over 80*C) for a while

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

I've run into the problem of the one hole pump interfering with accelerator linkage, I've run into that on my Pattern 12. My solution was to build new mounting bracket of the accelerator shaft. Decided it was better to build a complete new bracket and shaft instead of modifying the original which I have saved.

If I remember correctly when the bracket and shaft were relocated there was a clearance to the back of the pulley which was solved by grinding a little of the shaft away. I don't have a photo of the new linkage will try and get a good shot of it and post.

I have seen a mix of water pumps both styles having either a four bolt flange or the pulley pressed on to the shaft. If the pulley is pressed directly onto the shaft you have to use extreme care to support the pulley fully as you press it off. Otherwise you can bend the pulley or the shaft.

Photos give you an idea of the problem showing the original the bracket bolt spacers on the upper water outlet are missing to show problem more clearly.

Cheers Phil

[harrygrey382]

wow good info Phil, and it makes me pretty sure something isn't original on mine. After the 15 or so year gap between disassembly and reassembly (and considering I was 14 when I pulled it down) I couldn't remember how it all went together. But things didn't seem right, and I could've sworn my bracket is homemade. There certainly weren't the spaces you mention, and I had to grind a bit of the bracket for clearance on the Tstat housing and pulley. So maybe it was already a different pump, maybe in a previous life the bracket got lost. Are there any close up photos of the area showing an original pump, bracket and bolt spacers? I guess it's going to be simplest to suck it up and buy the rebuild kit. But maybe not if mine isn't an original military pump...