Artillery Trailers

[Rob Beale]

I am interested in seeing images of British Artillery trailers of the WW1 and interwar period. I have a 1940 manual on the 18 pounder which lists quite a few that were used with the 18 pdr: No 4, 4A, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 plus No 27 & 29 but it only illustrates three of them. It gives descriptions of each, but they are hard to follow with out images.

I tried a web search, but No 27 is about the only one that comes up.

(We have a limber with our 15 pounder from 1898, but I don't know if that had a model no in the above series. It has a timber ammo box, whereas most of the above are described as riveted steel boxes).

Any leads out there please?

cheers
Rob

[Ben]

Hi Rob

I've sent you an email.

Ben

[George Moore]

Not sure if you got my email, but I do have some info on various limbers for 18pdr/4.5" howitzer/6" howitzer/60pdr. Trewins book on artillery is a good source with scale drawings. Not only limbers but ammunition wagons too.

George.

[Rob Beale]

The No. 4 trailer is used as the carriage trailer for horse draught and has steel-tyred wheels, a draught pole, a pole bar and two swingletrees.
The ammunition box is constructed of steel plates rivetted together...
designed to carry 24 rounds....

Source: Handbook for the Ordnance, QF 18-pdr 1940

[Rob Beale]

The No. 6 trailer is used as the front vehicle of the ammunition trailers and is for horse draught. It has steel-tyred wheels and fitted with a draught pole, pole bar and two swingle trees.
The ammunition box is as for the No. 7 trailer, constructed of steel plates rivetted together...carries 38 rounds

[Rob Beale]

The No. 7 trailer may be used as either the carriage trailer or as the front vehicle of the section ammunition trailers. It is used by units for mechanised draught having rubber-tyred wheels (as with the Mark IIR carriage) and has fittings for a No. 17 engine draught connector.
The ammunition box is constructed of steel plates rivetted together...carries 38 rounds.

No pic available

[Rob Beale]

The No. 8 trailer may be used either as the carriage trailer or as the front vehicle of the section ammunition trailers. It is used for mechanised draught having steel tyres and fittings for a No. 21 engine draught connector.
The ammunition box is as for the No. 7 trailer, constructed of steel plates rivetted together...carries 38 rounds

No pic available

[Rob Beale]

The No. 9 trailer is used as the rear ammunition trailer for horse draught having steel-tyred wheels.
The ammunition box is as for the No. 10 trailer, with steel doors and shield... carries 38 rounds.

[Rob Beale]

The No. 10 trailer is used as the rear vehicle of the section ammunition trailers. It is provided with rubber-tyred wheels for use with mechanised draught.
The ammunition box has steel doors and shield... carries 38 rounds.

no pic available

[Rob Beale]

The No. 4A trailer differs from the No. 4 in being fitted with draught joints in lieu of hooks, to take a No. 21 engine draught connector for mechanised draught.
(It is restricted for use with the Mark I carriage.

no pic available

[Rob Beale]

The No. 29 trailer differs from the No. 7 in being fitted with pneumatic-tyred wheels on drop hubs and is for use with the Mark IIPA carriage.
The ammunition box is as for the No. 7 trailer, constructed of steel plates rivetted together...carries 38 rounds.

Drop hub diagram shown, is to fit the end of the original axle, and lower the wheel centre for the smaller radius steel disk wheels and pneumatic tyres.
Low pressure tyres, 7.50" by 24" are fitted. Note I am not sure if this is the dia of the rim as used in WW2 and later, or the old system of outside dia of the tyre. Remember tyres then had a 100% profile where the width was the same as the height so the tube was effectively circular inside the tyre.

The manual also shows the No. 27 trailer was used for the 18 pdr.

[Rob Beale]

Wheels were developed from wooden spokes and rims with steel tyres for horse draught to rubber tyres on thes wheels for mechanised draught.
(I assume this was traction engines and the like).
Final change was to pneumatic tyres for draught by motor vehicles like gun tractors.

Speed Limits:

Pneumatic Tyres: 20 mph on good roads, 10 mph on indifferent roads

Rubber-tyred or padded wheels and unsprung: 15 mph good roads, 10 mph indifferent roads

Wooden wheels steel tyred 8 mph (no mention of road type!)

The WW1 equipment described in the threads above used the No 45 2nd class C wheel which had 6 pairs of spokes and a 6 part rim (felloes) of 56 ' diameter. The pic shows a cross section of the wheel. Spokes are oak and felloes are ash

[Rob Beale]

Originally Posted by George Moore

Not sure if you got my email, but I do have some info on various limbers for 18pdr/4.5" howitzer/6" howitzer/60pdr. Trewins book on artillery is a good source with scale drawings. Not only limbers but ammunition wagons too.

George.

Thanks George,

Do you have images or plans of any of the trailers above?
I have some pages from "Early British QF Artillery" Len Trawin 1997
Is that the same book? (I will PM you).

For general info: my understanding is that each pair of guns had another two ammunition trailers. As described above, the front trailer could be used with a gun also, but the rear trailer lacked a draught pole, but was fitted with a 'perch' (drawbar) instead.

Most published pics show the gun teams, and rarely show the pair of trailers. The No.27 trailer of course can be used as either front or rear trailer. The gunners may wish to elaborate

Well any other images available folks?

cheers
Rob
ex RNZIR

[Tony Mathers]

Len Trawin
Early British Quick Firing Artillery: Field and Horse

Softcover, ISBN 1854861549
Publisher: Nexus Special Interests, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom, 1997
Used - Like New. 406 pages, prof ill b/w drawings , next best thing to owning the artillery - This landscape format handbook, designed for modellers and military historians, provides detailed scaled plans, drawings and descriptions of gun carriage design of the Boer Wars and World War I. It covers topics such as: breechloading 15 pounders; quickfiring 18 pounders; 4.5 inch Howitzers; 16 wheel variations; limbers and ammunition wagons; miscellaneous stores; sight development; and harness...

http://www.amazon.co.uk//gp/offer-li...=bkfndr76-b-21

[George Moore]

Hi Tony, Trewins book is a mine of information, with harness details, details of the fittings for the pole, plus an extensive list of wheel types with drawings and details. Also some exploded views of limbers and ammunition wagons....unfortunately it does not list the "trailer number"....least i have not found it. The official handbooks are a better source for that.....
Rob,
You have an extensive collection from the handbook, I think some trailers were re-classified once they were updated with the Martin Parry conversion to pneumatic tyres.
I have some photo's from 1940, mostly equipment captured by the Axis forces....There are some differences between limbers used by some Commonwealth forces....there is evidence that those possibly converted in Australia had a beam axle replacing the old axletree....when converted to pneumatic tyres. The perch allowed the limbers to be connected....the Morris FAT had space for ammunition, but there is a lot of evidence that they towed limbers as well.
Another subject that needs much closer investigation, time to pool resources ????

George.

[Rob Beale]

This link should take you to a 1940 film clip that features the Morris CDSW gun tractors with 18 pdr and No.29 trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v =EhCnhS4kwZQ

(It also shows the Bren No2 MkI)

Rob

[Rob Beale]

This is another propaganda film to allay the fears of the population about the threat of japanese expansion in the pacific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVk9D7A30E

Some good shots of the Morris CDSW, and others of heavy AA guns, with predictors, sound ranging and range finders etc.

Lots of other interesting stuff too.