steering problems

[alleramilitaria]

yes i need help again... ok, MKII C/|\ carrier it seems that the warping device for the carrier (the big steel plate device with the 2 rods attached to the steering device) is not fixable. could i work the steering off the rear breaks only?? whats my options?

[Snowtractor]

Its a big steel plate what could be that wrong with it? Mine was seized and pitted but it cleaned up nicely and with some heat, the bearing freed up to dismantle and repair. Use it as a pattern and cut another if need be.
Sean

[alleramilitaria]

both rods are shot (rust, rust, and more rust) the bearing area is shot, the steering plate is pitted BAD, and the rollers next to the hull are frozen. so i need to get a work around.

[Snowtractor]

ah peanuts, rods are dirt cheap , bearings are dirt cheap, mine was exactly as you describe and now a slight breeze will rotate the plate. So there are pits , big deal. As long as it is still solid then its just cosmetic in a place you will be hard pressed to see and only when the engine side covers are off and you stick your head inside the engine housing. If pits are such a concern use bondo on them.
My plate was so seized I had to cut the rods to get the plate down and out of the carrier . The clevis pins were siezed and I could not rotate or remove them to get the plate and mount out. But with some time and a torch and hammer everything came apart and its cleaned up and all together again, using the same hardware...and well greased. I also welded up the oringinal rods afer using heat and a vise grip to turn in and turn out the rods from the clevises ( clevi? )because they were so seized. Oh and I had to drill out the cotter pins as they had rust welded themselves to the pins. Clevis pins, clevises, rods ,cotter pins ,bearings are all common and reasonably inexpensive in most places ( not here though ) so you do not even have to clean that up , just replace it.
YOu could get a T16 manual and try to BS a tiller bar and brake system from that , but they use 4 tiller bars and you'll just be hacking up a MKII and you'll likely have a S*#TLOAD more work for a jury rigged job that might kill you at 30 mph.
Sean

ps I should add I removed the plate on my back in the snow at -25degrees and fried a grinder because it got too much frost in it during its heating and cooling cycles. So it takes a bit of work but the end result is worth it..along with the story. Somehow its less satisfying saying "yup I bought this wreck hired someone to restore it and now drive it..."

[alleramilitaria]

easy, easy, yes im doing the same thing that you are doing (on my back with a grinder, banging my nuckles etc)but even the common parts are hard for me to come by down here. it seems everyone that has restored a carrier are keeping there secrets to themselvs and making it hard on us newcommers. i have the upmost respect for anyone that has restored a U/C or anyother military vehicle. but when we ask for help i get treated with scorn. how can i replace a bearing if NO ONE will give me a part number? or how can i build a bracket if no one will give me a photo of the bracket. im in a rush here to get the carrier up and ready to show in a paraid for november (it may be on a trailer). all im asking for is options and not belittlement. for you that have given good advice thank you from the bottom of my heart. my motivation is this, to get a old war hero back on the road. not play games. thank you.

[Snowtractor]

At worse I gave you a "tsk, tsk" Not a rebuke at all, but a friendly kick in the pants to say "don't reinvent the wheel" just step back and plod away and it'll get done. A kick, I might add that I have received once or twice. I find it quite often calms me down and focuses me on the issue.
That said I have to order every single bit from Edmonton 1400km to the south of me and I have absolutely 0 heavy industries within 300km of me, my nearest town being 300km away. So , I understand your dilemma and there are people a lot farther away from help that have built restores (I'm very curious about the Brazilian MV/cmp restores and how hard it was for them). Quite often there aren't quick fixes and hurrying breaks things.
As for bearings, who cares if no one will give you the numbers, for one, they will be on the bearing and two just take the old bearing and race in to a bearing supply house ( I use Western Bearing or BC bearing in canada ) and they will match one for you. Or you can mic the pieces or take them in to the counter and they will help.Have you got the manuals and parts lists? They have the numbers and Alex Blair on this forum has outstanding reprodutions of them...and I don't even get a buck for the plug.
If you are far away from these sources then you should start a list and a box of the stuff you are going to take with you the next time you are near a supplier. This way you won't be scrambling and forgetting what you need 5 minutes before leaving. Don't under estimate the yellow pages and internet for sources also.
And , yup, you can ask here too god knows I'm not the only one here
Sean

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Have you got the manuals and parts lists? They have the numbers and Alex Blair on this forum has outstanding reprodutions of them...and I don't even get a buck for the plug.

Hi Dave
Thanks Sean..You'll get a star in heaven for the plug and I'll send you a jug of tree rat nuts for Christmas..
Dave here are the manuals you would need for your carrier..
Contact me off line if you like.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#61: 423 pages
FUC-03
FORD MOTOR COMPANY OF CANADA, CARRIER, UNIVERSAL Mk. I and Mk. II. Illustrated Parts Catalogue 1941-44. Reissued May '44.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#62: 200 pages
UC Universal Carrier
Mk. I, Operators Maintenance Handbook, July '43, Canadian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#63: 290 pages
UC-F1 Universal Carrier,
Mk. I, Workshop Manual, Nov. '42, Canadian.


The Number 61 and 63 are the bible for the Universal carriers.
This is a sample of the FUC-03 parts manual...only a partial scan of the steering page..It is too big a file for the forum format..

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Thanks Sean..You'll get a star in heaven for the plug and I'll send you a jug of tree rat nuts for Christmas..

Hmmmmm, tree rat nuts Only telling the truth Alex, until you make me a liar Have to keep you in Vino some how
Sean

[Rob Dyba]

Dave, I am in the middle of what you need to fix on your carrier. If it is a bit of practical advice I will pass on what I have found up to date.This is all Aussie LP2 info so use what you can I suppose. I hope you do decide to fix up the original steering, mine was almost unrecognisable when I first started. All the rods in the floor had rusted away completely, the cam plate yokes (rod ends) were rusted away to almost nothing. Practical stuff- The nut that holds the cam plate bearing to the belly plate is the same as a Mini Cooper S front hub nut. The countersunk screws that hold the bearing in the warping plate are also Mini Cooper parts, rear brake drum screws. The bearing in the cam plate is the same bearing as in the rollers that works on the cam plate & also the steering column base bearing, check that out as it will save you several trips to the bearing supplier buying the same bearing 4 times.. Search under "lp2 steering measurments" (please note miss-spelling!!) as this has good info & a few good piccs from Bob Moseley of "what it should look like" Don't be too fussy with the finish of the edge of the cam plate, as we say down here"she'll be right mate!". .
lets just see if this works - LP2 steering measurements
Rob

[rob love]

I'll second everything Sean has said and add that to steer a carrier on it's brakes only won't get you very far. They heat up very quickly with just the gentlest of turns and be rendered useless.
The steering cam is the heart of the whole carrier. It can also be one of the most frustrating pieces. In one case, whilest repairing the steering on one the Shilo museum uses, I had to get a female artilleryman with tiny hands to reach in to tighten the nuts on the bearing brackets.
A few tips: The bearing brackets located on the crossshaft are bore-aligned. Don't try and mix&match these. Mark them before removing them and match them up for re-installation.
Also resist the urge to build up the edges on the steering cam itself. The bearings crowd against this fairly tightly and you are messing with science if you change the diameter of the cam.
Lastly, the two clevises at the cam are simply a slot headed pin which threads into the lower part of the clevis so if you are trying to hammer them out they are not going to come out. They can be replaced with normal clevis pins; you just have to watch the length so they don't hit the floor.
The rods can be made out of regular roundstock and, unless you have a set of BSF tap and die, and you most certainly won't have left hand thread for the opposing ends) threaded to UNF. Tap the clevises the same., just make your adjustments at the forward end only.
To leave the steering cam out of the total equation in the steering geometry would be like leaving Mona Lisa's smile out of the painting. Plus you won't have the fun of showing people how (at first glance) crude the steering system was.

[alleramilitaria]

thanks all for the help, i was not kicking but just getting a little frustrated. i have restored a jeep and a morris C8 and im used to rebuilding things. i was just asking if there was a way around it, didnt mean i was going to do it. ok?

now as far as the bearings... im frustrated as hell not so much as from you all, but from the local auto parts place. one of the girls thought i was hittig on her when i ask if she had a bearing for my tank (tracked vehicle with gun and armor = tank). she thought i ment something else beside my U/C. ?!?!?!?!?!

getting a sexual harasment complaint over a bearing for a road wheel!!!!!!!!

could anyone please show me how the tool boxes go on the top of the fuel tanks on the MKII????

and one last thing

any one need the following
AFV first aid pouches??
AFV bren 6mag holders??
made to order brit WWII style new made repro tankers suits??

now have repro PIAT rounds in stock

im going to add them to my line of repro items in my store. i hope to be a source for reproduction items for both reeinactors and collectors.

dave

[alleramilitaria]

whats the cost for the FUC-03 book? i have the others. whats the part number for the steering plate bearing? anyone have one for sale NOS?

[rob love]

It's a 6305 (25 X 62 X 17mm). Buy 3 cause you'll need them for the rollers on the cross shaft as well. Also go with sealed bearings. While it is unlikely youre going to leave your carrier parked in the bushline for 25 years like the way we find em, the seals won't hurt on the few times we do end up with fluids and dirt in the hull.
They are available anywhere you can buy bearings.