AEC Matador gun tractor

[cliff]

Just wondering if Australia had any of these on it's books during WW2 here in Australia?

I found one AWM photo showing one unloading a mobile Radar Trailer at Trinity Beach in Queensland and am sure I have seen the odd photo of them towing 3.5in AA guns here as well.

Can anyone confirm this for me plus what units would have had them?

I am just starting to build the AFV Club Matador and would like to mark it as an Aussie vehicle if possible, especially towing the 3.5in AA gun as I can get a resin kit of it for it to tow in future as well.

[lendlease]

Yes, they were in service here. I remember the late Ken Hughes collection in Kingaroy had the remains of 3 or 4 Matadors. Don't know what happened to them after his passing in 2001.

[Mike Cecil]

Cliff,

Total of 66 registered. Used to tow 3.7-inch HAA (mobile mount) guns, 155mm M1917 & M1918 guns, and sundry other tasks requiring a medium gun tractor. Disposed of shortly after the end of the war, in favour of retaining the Mack 6x6.

There were a couple in use at a quarry near Geelong, one configured as a crane the other as the quarry ANFO truck (but pensioned off - no longer considered 'safe' by the then-current standards). The ex-crane truck rolling chassis ended up with Bob Dimer in Perth, to be used as the base for his AEC ACV hull. Don't know what happened to that project after Bob passed away.

Mike

[lynx42]

C J Richards Sawmill at Mt. Taylor had at least two. I recovered some White scout car parts from the mill and had a good look at them. They ended up in the great scrap drive a few years ago after Tony L. and I agreed to take them and we were too slow.

Tony L. has another with a more modern cabin on it stored at Rick S. farm in SA.

Regards Rick.

[cliff]

Thanks Guys. Were they painted in Australian KG3?

[Mike K]

There was, years ago, the remains of one on the roadside as you turned off the Hume Hwy , I think it was Holbrook

I had a maintenance manual. Printed on the cover , was something similar to "Australia contract " . I sold it to a UK restorer

[Mike Cecil]

Cliff,

The one in the image you posted appears to be a base coat of KG3 or KG-J, with a disruptive pattern of light earth.

Mike

[lynx42]

After the Matadors at Mt. Taylor went to China, I was able to purchase the Maintenance Manuals they had there. 1943 Book No. 101/FW1 which is for (modified for Australia) and 1944 Book No. 101/FW1A Air Publication with a different cover and no mention of (modified for Australia).

Here are the covers.



101/FW1



101/FW1A



Pictures from inside of the 3/4 front view,



and the 3/4 rear view. but these may be the British colour scheme as it looks like Micky Mouse cammo.

Regards Rick.

[Philliphastings]

I purchased the AEC Armoured Command Vehicle off Bob Dimer in 2006 and began slowly restoring it for display in the Merredin (WA) Military Museum. I was in good running order and drove well - albeit minus air brakes ! I have a newspaper article from the time it arrived in Merredin.

I had collected a full set of correct radio gear (which I still have) and had sets of the plans and stowage sketches.

Unfortunately after exhausting my meagre funds on the AEC and M3 Stuart Tank, I had to let one go and so after being pestered endlessly for some time it passed to another collector who restored it externally. Last I heard it was resident in the Merredin Military Museum with a different interior fit out than the plans I had.

Perhaps one of our WA based MLUers can provide updated info on it's current whereabouts ?

Regards

Phill

[Dinty]

Two of the local sawmills in Millfield had AEC's, 2 have been scrapped, but one still exists, it has been fitted with a crane, cheers Dennis

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Phillip, It was still in the Merredin museum in mid 2014, when Rob Endersbee showed me through. She looked very smart, from the outside at least. A very classic vehicle! You have owned some impressive M.Vs.in the past.

[Philliphastings]

Hi Lynn, thanks

I have been very fortunate over the decades having owned, restored, preserved (and mostly driven) a fair variety of different Armoured and soft skin vehicles.

Having learned to drive in a Chevrolet CMP C15A 'Blitz' about 1979, I've never lost the passion. 10 years Army service only heightened my interest.

The AEC Armoured Command Vehicle was one of the highlights without a doubt.

I have also ensured that every vehicle I had went to a good home with only one notable exception - Daimler Ferret Mk2, ARN 115-328 which had been cut up and stripped. I sent the bare remains to the smelter...

Cheers

Phill

[Mike Cecil]

Rick,

The 1944 Manual was also released in April 1943, without the 'Air Publication' numbering in the top right corner. The contents of both the 1943 'modified for Aust' manual and the British April 1943 manual appear to be the same at first glance, so I don't know what the mods for Australia were. Any idea?

In any event, the 'Mod for Aust' would mean that the Matadors in Australia were a purchase from the UK, rather than refugee cargo as some of the OY Bedford appear to be. This would also support the idea that some of the (later) OY Bedfords were also a purchase, rather than all being refugee cargo.

The big difference between the Matador two manuals is the quality of paper: the Brit manual is on far better quality paper, with a hard card cover, compared to the 'austerity' paper and flimsy card cover used for the 'Modified for Australia' version.

There was also a small driver's handbook for the AEC Matador - my copy is also marked with the Air Publication number and is dated April 1944. All three of the publications I have were obtained in Australia, so all must have been supplied for use with the vehicles. Registrations are spread over two series, so I wonder if the Matadors arrived in Australia in two batches, several months apart? That might account for the 1943 v 1944 dated publications.

The cam pattern as pictured in the images in all the manuals is the Brit 'Mickey Mouse' ears black/green disruptive pattern.

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Rick,

The 1944 Manual was also released in April 1943, without the 'Air Publication' numbering in the top right corner. The contents of both the 1943 'modified for Aust' manual and the British April 1943 manual appear to be the same at first glance, so I don't know what the mods for Australia were. Any idea?

In any event, the 'Mod for Aust' would mean that the Matadors in Australia were a purchase from the UK, rather than refugee cargo as some of the OY Bedford appear to be. This would also support the idea that some of the (later) OY Bedfords were also a purchase, rather than all being refugee cargo.

The big difference between the Matador two manuals is the quality of paper: the Brit manual is on far better quality paper, with a hard card cover, compared to the 'austerity' paper and flimsy card cover used for the 'Modified for Australia' version.

There was also a small driver's handbook for the AEC Matador - my copy is also marked with the Air Publication number and is dated April 1944. All three of the publications I have were obtained in Australia, so all must have been supplied for use with the vehicles. Registrations are spread over two series, so I wonder if the Matadors arrived in Australia in two batches, several months apart? That might account for the 1943 v 1944 dated publications.

The cam pattern as pictured in the images in all the manuals is the Brit 'Mickey Mouse' ears black/green disruptive pattern.

Mike

Hi Mike,
The 'modified for Australia" reference might be something as simple as the lubrication specifications. Not sure if Australia used the same designations for its oils and greases at that time, but also the ambient temperatures would mean changes to oil grades. I will search out my Matador manual.

regards, Richard

[lynx42]

Here is a photo taken, I think, in Melbourne sent to me by Cam F. I think it is the Shrine of Remembrance is in the distant background. The T&G Building was on the corner of Collins and Russell Streets, and still is but now not used by T&G. The park is still there but I can't place the oberlisk.



These two are painted different colours, the back one is darker.

Regards Rick.

[David Dunlop]

These AEC's remind me of the FWD Tractors. Were they winch equipped, aft of the cab?

David

[Neilie (RIP)]

Yes they were but unlike the Matadors, the winch protruded through the floor into the body thereby forcing the crew members sitting on the front bench to share leg-room with it.

Cheers,

Neil

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Rick,

Not Melbourne: Sydney, cnr Park & Elizabeth Streets, looking south east past the Hyde Park Oberlisk with Hyde Park's Anzac Memorial in the background. The corner now boasts a Starbucks at the base of a high-rise block in the position of the T&G building. You cannot get that same view now: the trees have all grown so much.

The guns are also interesting: these are 3-inch 20cwt AA guns on their mobile platforms, which were the predecessors of the 3.7-inch HAA guns. The lead gun appears to have a camouflage patter on the mudguard, which placed the parade into 1942 at least.

The Matadors appear to have the importation diamond still on the front left, and a Brit number I cannot read on the door, with the ARN of a 5-digit number on the front right.

On enlarging the image, it looks to me more like a trick of the light, Rick - they both appear to be the same colour. With the import 'diamond' still on them, this would be the colour they emerged from the AEC factory.

Mike

[lynx42]

Thanks for the correction Mike. I was not sure and was thrown by the T&G building and the shape of the Anzac Memorial. Not being a Sydneyite I had nothing else to compare too.

I should have been more observant as no trams ever went up Russell street.

Regards Rick