Info needed: Trailer socket Humber one ton

[Robert Sexton]

I have a Humber One Ton and Brockhurst one ton trailer both under restoration. The Humber has a massive four wire trailer socket and the trailer looks like it had the same socket. Did they have a cable with two male ends joining them together? I have a NOS cable with one male end.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Robert, and a cheery hello to another Humber owner.
Unfortunately I can't help you with your question, my Corio made one ton trailer does have a lead on it, which looks original although I have updated the plug for a modern 7 pin for convenience.
There is as much knowledge on MLU about the Humber as can be found, so if you have not done so may I suggest trying the "Search" button.
Please feel free to share some pics and history of the truck.
Rich.

[Dave Mills]

Hello Robert, know the trailer socket off by heart; the female section.
Unfortunarly do not yet own a Brockhurst trailer so cannot assist. I would however assume the there would be no intermediate cable just the direct coupling. Would like to see some pics of your resto as we have just completed our own ground up resto of a Humber and understand the complexities.

Dave.

[Robert Sexton]

Hello to Richard and Dave,thanks for the interest. As soon as I can locate some pics I will put them up. I have yet to learn the attaching method as I suspect my files are to large to upload.
The trailer is just about completed,just doing the wiring now.The trailer had a female plug just like the Humber and Champ,I can only presume to couple both together the lead would have to have two male ends.I have a parts manual for the trailer and it shows the female coupling on the drivers side drawbar.They are truly massive plugs and would carry a decent welding current.
The Humber is under restoration with the tray body just been completed.
I have a C60s also under resto and want to complete that as a priority. The chev is at the rolling chassis stage with engine and transmission back in and waiting to re-fit the body.

[Robert Sexton]

Brockhurst one ton trailer,GS body.
Robert

[Richard Farrant]

Just to set the record straight, the trailer make is Brockhouse. I recall some were made by Joseph Sankey as well.

[Robert Sexton]

Thanks Richard I will make that correction. As far as I could find out they were referred to as Sankey trailers in Oz but were indeed made made by Brockhouse. This what it looked like when it came to me.

Robert

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

I hope the Humber is in better condition than the trailer!
Nice job.
Rich.

[Robert Sexton]

Rich,The Humber was a going concern when I got it. The usual rust problems in the tray body but the rest does not look to bad.Engine runs well ,transmission sounds OK,all the electrics work,brakes not working. It was in a shed out of the weather and not been run for thirty years when I bought it.This is what it looked like after all the dust and chook feathers were washed off, also the the GS tray just after restoration and assembly.
The timber from the tray and the trailer look like Teak but hard to tell as they were very weathered,I have replaced the deck with local E.Wandoo, it is a very hard timber and will stand water immersion, it is commonly used as stock yard material.The usual lifespan in the ground as a post is fifty years plus.

[Dave Mills]

Robert, the Trailer looks great, is it staying this colour or going the deep bronze green? You will be one very fortunate Humber owner if there is no rust in the cab.

Have you been following our Humber restoration story on MLU. What I would give to have my very own forklift.

Dave

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Humber looks surprisingly good, those tubs do tend to rust out along the wood line, and what is it, 160 totally rusted bolts to remove (pretty sure Dave counted them all...) the only other bit's that suffers from rust is the cab floor, roof, hatch's, mudguards, centre air vent ....
Did you put the winch hatch back in the (Tub) floor?
FFW or cargo?
Have you got the ARN for it?
Rich.

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Dave Mills

What I would give to have my very own forklift.
Dave

I don't know about Australia but in the UK old forklifts are suprisingly cheap. Get friendly with a dealer and you will find that they take in old ones that have little commercial value just to make a sale of a new one. If you are paying cash and don't need it certified it gives the guy an easy way to get rid of what is otherwise almost scrap but may well work reasionably well. I have an old 2 ton Fiat which would have been hard to certify as they all have dreadfull brakes. Came with a new battery and cost £500. Very usefull. If you ever have to transport a forklift check its weight as they weigh well over what they lift. Obviously we need the hydraulics to be good with no creep when loaded and solid tyres are good because they don't get punctures! Also don't get an electric one because the batteries die quickly if they are old and aren't used every day.

David

[Robert Sexton]

The trailer and Humber will stay the desert sand colour. No real reason other than I have three other green trucks and this one will look different.
The Humber cab looks to have surface rust without any real penetration,I have dissembled the mud guards,doors and roof hatches as I thought that they were the most vulnerable. I put the lack of rust down to the very low humidity and being under cover for such a long time.
I fabricated a new winch hatch and that is now in place.
I am a new boy to much of the above so I am on a steep learning curve.
The brass ID plate on the trailer says; TRAILER,1 TON,CARGO,WHLD SANKEY 2401/A. CHASSIS NO 56745 VEHICLE NO 678K45
The ID on the Humber says; TRUCK,1TON,4X4,CT,COMMER 1601A. CHASSIS NO 6310009 ENGINE B60,NO1,MK5 NO 11545
and the tray;BODY 1 TON,C.T. CARGO. ser. CB61009
I dont know what the numbers and letters refer too,I would be very thank full to be enlightened. Robert

[Robert Sexton]

This is the tray just before the winch hatche(s) were replaced. I could not source boards that were the same width as the originals so we have one extra plank. The centre black strip is a top hat section (like the ACCO tray).I could not source or manufacture the original wear strips and I hope that when the centre strip is painted it will not be tooo noticeable. I have put in two hatch covers, the winch drum is a hatch and the other side uncovers the ignition cut out wire and exposes the oil level plug.Not original I know but it will be functional and better than a hole in the floor.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

I'm afraid the Humber is a very steep learning curve for all of us.
Not sure what you do or don't know, however- from the chassis plate.
The 158 (form memory) Australian delivered Humbers are plated as Commer, another arm of the Rootes group at the time. Possibly for future marketing of a civilian version in Australia where Commer was thought to be more recognised. (Unlike the Champ there never was a civvy version)
CT= Combat. This was designed as a frontline vehicle, you will also see them referred to as a FV1601, FV = Fighting Vehicle and indeed you will see a large range of the parts are stamped with this.
CHASSIS NO 6310009, check your engine number, it should be 11345 (not 11545). the Aust Army number (ARN) was 105 677 until it was disposed of on 20/10/68.
Engine is the Rolls Royce B60, Mk5, (B40=4cyl B60=6cyl B80=8cyl.)

Cargo, not FFW.


Desert Cam. was used on British Humbers in the middle east, I don't know of any Aust. Army ones ever painted that way, so maybe the first in that livery over here.

I always thought that the crude door cut into the tub floor was someone's modification, was not until I rebuilt it all and found that the locking tabs were genuine that I realised it was original. After going to the trouble of using hardwood planks all in the original pattern I decided that the best idea would have been to use a full sheet of form ply/marine ply with the top hat wear strips screwed to it. Bolt the whole lot in with 4 bolts, job done and easily removable for working on the drive train. But that would be cheating I suppose.
Wear strip pattern does not seem to be quite the same as anything else we have over here, Dave will have something to say on the subject.

Rich.

[Dave Mills]

Hello Robert, have finally had some skid strips manufactured for our tub. Still working on the bolts and Winch Hatch opening. Looked everywhere for the strips to no avail then the challenge was taken up Alltmann Engineering (Stawell) a former was produced and the sheet shaped using a brake press we used 1.3 mil mild steel sheet.

Desert Sand Humber will look great, ask Rich about his Desert Sand (Pink) Champ.

Dave.

[Robert Sexton]

You were right about the engine number Rich, it is 11345 not 11545.Thanks for the other info. I have very sketchy details from the previous owner ,as far as I understood his father bought the Humber from Army disposals in Perth about the late 60's so that fits with the disposal date.It had a one (1) numeral inside a white roundel on both doors. His father started using it in heavy sand as a towing vehicle and found out straight away that he was going to end up in the poor house supplying the fuel,it was put in a shed and stayed there until I bought it about 15years ago for $1200.I thought I paid too much as I had no idea of its condition or what I was I going to do with it.
The wear strips that Dave has manufactured look the real deal,I am sure they are the same profile as the trailer and would do an authentic job there.
I have attached a pic of the trailer plug and socket,I am not convinced that it was connected up in the conventional way on the hand it would be irrational to have a lead with two male ends.The parts are NOS from Tim Vibert.
Robert

[Robert Sexton]

Some other markings that were on the Humber, I do not what units they might have been associated with.On the front left of the bonnet was what looks like might have been crossed swords perhaps red on a yellow background.I have attached a pic of the "one" roundel on both doors and the Kangaroo which was on the back left panel of the cargo body.
21st Construction was based in Perth ,it may have belonged to them.
Robert

[Dave Mills]

This may assist Robert, the number in the middle represents the Vehicle Call Sign and the circle "Charlie" squadron of an armoured or cavalry regiment. The Kangaroo indicates the brigade that the sub unit was attached with; the colour also indicates the unit. For example I carry a red upright triangle with indicates 1st Armoured Regiment "A" squadron.

Maybe white represents the 10th Light Horse Regiment of WA?

With the skid strips they now have the formers and are happy to produce more upon request of course $'s will be involved. PM me if you want the details.

Dave.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Great to have some of the original insignia, could be more under those ones. One of my Champs had 4 different unit markings, each over painted by a later one.
Price wise, the Bookham Humber (pic here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=26105) which appeared to have been sitting unused and undercover since it's army days went for $7250 last month. The pricing for Humber's is quite subjective, there were so few of them to start with, and maybe a dozen or on the road now, throw in the complexity, running costs and rust, it is rare to see one, let alone one worth more than scrap value.
So, you did good. Although only last year I was earnestly lectured about them being worth $60 000, and,funnily enough, for all the reasons above...
I only know of two places over here for parts, you obviously know about Tim V, then there are Altmann's at Stawell (Vic), but other than the common parts shared with the rest of the "B" range they will take some hunting.
I note that your chassis number is very low (for the Aust. contract), it may have the earlier brake adjusters, and be missing the access hole in the transmission tunnel for the clutch linkage adjustment.
Have you got the snorkel for it? And any spares (a certain Humber owner is getting desperate....)
Rich.

[Robert Sexton]

G'day Rich, I have virtually nothing at in all in the way of parts.I have a spare distributor from a friend who has a Ferret that's it. I know of one other in WA or at least I have seen one on the road, I believe the parts for the Humber/Champ and Ferret were purchased by a truck wrecker business but I can't find anyone to confirm this.(they don't have them now)If the chassis numbers are consecutive then mine must have been in the first delivery batch, I was unaware of the brake adjuster differences in fact my knowledge of the Humber could be described as nil.Definitely no snorkel.It has the original tyres I would guess by the tread pattern and fortunately the previous owner had not made any modifications/additions.Mine is missing the taillights, I assume they had stop/tail on both sides but not turn indicators.
I understand from some trawling on the net that the tracta joints were vulnerable ,I haven't been there yet so still to find out.
Thanks for your interest and help. Robert

[Dave Mills]

Yes Robert, the tracta joints are a worry, although with yours if it was out of the army and very quickly parked up you may be lucky. Axle bearings taper and roller are over the counter stock. The seals oil and fording are another question and be prepared to shell out the dollars to get these from the UK. It took two donor vehicles to complete our resto we named them "Crayfish" rough on the outside and nice on the inside,however, your body looks a lot better than ours started out as. May the force be with you Robert as you enter the dark art of Humber drive train repair and of course the rust. Our resto thread has some pics of our tracta joint overhaul and of course I am sure that Rich and I can offer plenty of advice from afar.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Robert, the vulnerability of the tracta joints is generally caused by complete absence of lubrication. Like the Ferret, oil needs to be pumped through the outer tracta housing, into the inner tracta until it appears at the level plug on the diff housing. All too often the oil input was just used as a grease nipple with poor results.
Are you thinking of Archie Marshall? He imported all the Champs etc back when they were released from the British army, into WA, when he closed up the remainder parts wise was sold to Altmanns at Stawel (Vic).
Aust. Humber chassis start at 630001, yours being the 9th, FYI it was the also the 4th one to be given it's ARN.
One rear tail light, one brake light, both on the drivers side, a red reflector each side that appear to have been retro fitted as positions vary. No indicators.
Next time your trawling the net, Paul Handel has a terrific article on the Humber's introduction to Australia: http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/oth...rtruckph_1.htm
Rich.

[Robert Sexton]

Thanks for that info Richard. I recall Archie Marshall but the other one was Soltoggio Bros who still operate as wreckers. I believe they had some of the Ferret and Humber parts and then on sold them.Although I am not near doing the wiring I intend to put taillights/stop/indicators in in anticipation of maybe a full license.I have NOS reflectors form Marcus Glen for the trailer, they are the same as the Humber I am sure .
I have read Paul's story on the Humber ,you have to be thankful that people like him have taken the time and trouble to record some of our obscure past.
I will be in Victoria some time in the not to distant so will make time to call into Russel Altman's establishment.
I have just finished the drive train on the C60, it is no where near as scary as the Humber to look at,all a challenge.
Robert

[Robert Sexton]

Originally Posted by Dave Mills

This may assist Robert, the number in the middle represents the Vehicle Call Sign and the circle "Charlie" squadron of an armoured or cavalry regiment. The Kangaroo indicates the brigade that the sub unit was attached with; the colour also indicates the unit. For example I carry a red upright triangle with indicates 1st Armoured Regiment "A" squadron.

Maybe white represents the 10th Light Horse Regiment of WA?

With the skid strips they now have the formers and are happy to produce more upon request of course $'s will be involved. PM me if you want the details.

Dave.

You were right about the signs Dave. "C" squadron of the 10 Light Horse did have Humbers (as well as Ferrets). There is one restored Humber from the 10LH in Perth and I shall endevour to make contact with him, there is a feature article in the last edition(issue 37) of the "Vintage Trucks" magazine about the Humber and some of its history with the 10LH.
regards, Robert

[Dave Mills]

Robert, You may stumble onto the Holy Grail of restoration; an in service photo of your vehicle displaying the ARN. Should be a lot easier to track knowing the unit, squadron and call sign.

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by Robert Sexton

Attachment 86267
Brockhurst one ton trailer,GS body.
Robert

Hi Robert

I have a much smaller problem than yours as I am a modeller making a small (1/76) model of the Humber and the 1 ton trailer. I do have a book on the Humber; it has a few pics of Oz trucks - but all are FV1602A - the FFW (fitted for wireless) version. Only one has a visible ANR which is 105-779.

I do have one question, if you would be so good, though you may not know the answer! Your truck dates from 1955 or so; maybe the trailer does too. If your trailer has the original lighting arrangement, like one red light each side mounted on the outside edge of the chassis (maybe an even earlier version had only a light on one side!), can you tell me where the number plate was mounted? I can cope with the lights, but where was the number plate?

Later versions had outriggers at front and rear on each side of the trailer with lights and reflectors and, in UK at least, reflective triangles. On these ones the rear left hand outrigger (looking from the rear) carried the number plate. But my trailer will be in service at Suez 1956 and is too early for this arrangement.

Oh, and I think you will find the number of your trailer is not 678K45, but 67BK45. I have seen pics of these trailers with numbers in the BK series (so were the Humbers), but 678K45 is not a British Army number.

Chris

[Robert Sexton]

Hello Chris,about the serial number, you are probably right ,the "eight" is a bit distorted and looked like a "B" to me. I will get a strong light and a magnifying glass to verify it.I have attached a pic (poor quality) as the trailer was when it came to me.The brackets for the tail lights were as you describe,one on either side with the bracket taking the Lucas with the red lens.Mine had late after market combination Narva lights ,definitely not original.The number plate was mounted central below the tailgate but I do not think that is original either as it was fixed direct to the chassis and not to a bracket. There are mounting holes for something central to the chassis at that point, I think it unlikely that it would be for a number plate bracket as that is covered when the tailgate is down and locked,it would be more likely to be on an outrigger on one side. Mine had the original reflectors (common to the Humber) mounted central on the lower part of the mudguard.In the centre of the tailgate is a metal triangle with nine cats eyes inserted in the three sides, the centre was painted red.
My Humber has 1954 stamped into the air cleaner and it would be likely that the trailer is about the same vintage.I have yet to find out out exactly how the trailer socket was connected to the Humber.
I couldn't even think of being able to work in the dimensions that you guys do. Regards, Robert

[chrisgrove]

Hi Robert
Many thanks for your extremely prompt reply. Just think how long that would have taken by snail mail!
Thanks also for the useful pic. It confirms what I thought about the lights - the one I have seen that has that arrangement has amber blinkers mounted, on a similar bracket, above the red rear lights. It also has a (civvy) number plate mounted a bit further to the right (further from the centreline) than yours, but it must be on some sort of bracket as it appears below the chassis. I begin to wonder if the number plate was originally mounted on the mudguard above the reflector.
My model may be small, but I don't have to contend with the degree of damage, rot and rust that you had to start with! I'll try and remember to put a pic on this thread when its finished.
Chris

[Robert Sexton]

Hello Chris, I have a parts book for the trailer dated 1974. It shows a number plate bracket mounted about the mid point on the RH mudguard, it has the standard Butler illumination/convoy light above the mounting plate. The plate looks like all one pressing with a support at the top to match the curve in the mudguard.
My trailer had the remains of some steel conduit running from the chassis inside the RH mudguard to about that point,I had wondered about its use and assumed it had been added on maybe for after market indicators.I was remiss in not having a closer look,I am very much at the learning stage with the restoration game.
Just curious why the 1/76 scale,and you were correct about the chassis number.
Robert