Those elusive green reflectors......

[r.morrison]

Well, just thought I'd share this. Went through this Forum to see if I could locate those damn little elusive green bumper reflectors for the early CMP's . Seems over the years the subject has periodically popped up on the forum as to their where abouts. Took a chance and emailed our friend Brian Asbury and as described by himself ...tres uber expensive and sought after. He has one set left and if you're interested, give him a shout. NOT to do Brian ought of a sale, came across these little puppies out of Europe and as far as I'm concerned...."close enough for the girls we go with"!
The originals are made of plastic. The ones I picked up are crystal and some what a darker green. They are about 3 cm larger in diameter but unless your friends are walking around with a micrometer (now there's an old word!) they will work perfectly. Just have to make the bracket and cup.
Keep you posted......Robert

[r.morrison]

Well as much as I did this venture a week ago, downloading photos etc etc etc tonight for whatever reason, I can't seem to download my photos. Whether some thing is wrong with the web site or I am screwing up.....I'll have to keep trying and figure this one out. Sorry for the let down. Robert

[Dave Mills]

How is it all going Rob? This is my set of NOS Green Reflectors from my Dad's collection.

Dave.

[r.morrison]

Firstly, my deepest apologies in not getting back to you. I will call and/or email you over the next couple of days. Been busy up here, but still try and stay a fresh on the forum. YES.... those are the puppies I have been talking about. Would you like to sell them? I am willing to pay for them in "pepperoni"! For what ever reason I can't seem to down load the photos. We'll try tomorrow.
Sorry OZ didn't make it up here in the World Finals. Hopefully you all had a good time while you were here.
I'll try giving you a call tomorrow evening and we'll take it from there.

Cheers ....Robert

PS: Unfortunately....the father who started up the "pepperoni store" passed away 2 weeks ago from a sudden heart attack. Died and revived 8 times!!! Internationally, you are not the first ones to sample his fare. I went to the funeral, and it was way beyond standing room only. You have been blessed!
I have you comments framed and they will be displayed in the shop!!

We'll natter over the weekend......Robert

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by r.morrison

PS: Unfortunately....the father who started up the "pepperoni store" passed away 2 weeks ago from a sudden heart attack. Died and revived 8 times!!!

And yet the guy who inflicted the "Kale Smoothie" on the world lives to 104! There is no justice!

[Dave Mills]

Hello Rob, yes, we spoke about these gems when you hosted us in Canada. Mate, PM me and we will discuss; it is the least we can do for your hospitality and generosity.

We are sad to hear about the Pepperoni king's passing. It got our daughter and others from the Aussie team through the world Championships and we cannot thank you enough.

PM me and I am sure we will do a deal you cannot refuse on the green reflectors.

Cheers,

Dave and Kathy.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by r.morrison

Well as much as I did this venture a week ago, downloading photos etc etc etc tonight for whatever reason, I can't seem to download my photos. Whether some thing is wrong with the web site or I am screwing up.....I'll have to keep trying and figure this one out. Sorry for the let down. Robert

Here you go, Robert!

They look like a very good replacement/ replica.

[r.morrison]

Many thanks Hanno. Still haven't figured out what I did wrong. Robert

[Grant Bowker]

I don't think I have a need for the reflectors but I am curious whether the reflectors from Europe were a one-off find or are readily available for people to order (and what the source is if there are more available). For that matter, is there another source for CMP parts developing besides LWD?

[r.morrison]

Hi Grant: I don't know if you would call it "one off" but I came across them somewhat as a fluke. I was looking for these etc. under "reflectors" and all sorts of words and descriptions. As anyone who has shopped ebay, the key word is everything to finding something and low and behold I came across these under the word "prism". They are Czech chandelier crystals/decorations and as known, they make some of the finest crystal in the world. As soon as I saw them, I knew they were spot on. As said earlier, only 3 cm larger in diameter and that's close enough. I bought up their stock of eight and have a agreement with them to buy up all of them that they can lay their hands on. They have red ones of the same size, but as to an earlier broach of the subject, red ones were never used on CMP's. Nothing else even closely related to CMP's or anything military.
Hope this helps.....Robert

[rob love]

Now you need to find an appropriately sized frost plug, and make a pair of dies to crimp in those crystals (after spot welding the frost plug to a metal strap of course).

[Yeo.NT]

Quick search and I found these. https://www.terapeak.com/worth/4-2-2.../152427620759/

[r.morrison]

I would have never thought of a frost plug Rob, but the more I look at it....you're spot on! We'll do some work on that and show you the finished product when it's done. Cheers and thanks......Robert

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Yeo.NT

Quick search and I found these. https://www.terapeak.com/worth/4-2-2.../152427620759/

That 'price trend' graph on the link is going to spike if every MLU-er with a CMP orders a pair....

[r.morrison]

Bruce, the way I look at it...if it doesn't exist for years ( based on info from the MLU Forum ) then finding something as close as this, well, where do you put a price on that. They cost me about $20.00 bucks each Canadian delivered and if I can make up a replica of the originals, anyone with the early CMP models benefits. You have a choice of Chandelier or CMP and as our friend Brian Asbury says...."tres uber expensive" and elusive. Again, I have an agreement with the seller on price and to buy any of these units he can find and I would sooner have them on a CMP.
Cheers.....Robert

[r.morrison]

Bruce, just as a foot note, I talked with the owner of the store in Prague and he said that they very very seldom come across the green ones of that size. So as Brian A. said..... they are very elusive! Something is better than nothing.

Cheers....Robert

[Bob Carriere]

Are they green both sides or one green one RED?????

Bob C

[r.morrison]

Well Bobb..... that deepends on how muuch you've had to drunk/drink!!!!
The green ones again are "green manufactured crystal". The inside of those prisms are painted with Gold Paint, which I would imagine would be related to reflection. Now the Red Prisms, a separate unit, I would basically say would be the same, as well as being the exact same size as the green ones. According to the entries on the Forum, the Red ones were never used (even though they are a lot cheaper.)
Hop thiss hellps.......Wobert (Joking)

[r.morrison]

Bobb....did you mean colours front and back of the "prism" or colours on the bumper of a CMP. Good Question.......Wobwert

[Bob Carriere]

I was under the impression that the jewels..... one red and one green where meant for opposite sides of the bumpers..... and being a British design were associated with the RED port side and green starboard side....after all most of the early British driving etiquette was based on maritime experience....hence driving on the left side like ships crossing from opposite direction.

Deep somewhere in my many boxes of CMP bits, odds & ends and what nots..... that I have a set of jewels and I believe one is green one is red. I never installed them as I replaced my old twisted bumper with a new section of U channel and the old bumper did not have the hole for the jewels.

Keep in mind that my relatively early Chevrolet cab 11 never went over seas and never had the black out masks on the headlights, no rear axle light and no front fender mounted position lights. My vehicle as far as I can tell was purely a base runabout in the HQ area. It also did not have later retro fits like the long hook on the cowling for driving with the doors ajar nor the retro fitted straps to limit the doors from banging on the cargo box. It does however have the air vents and the Ford woven mesh grill.

But having said all that, one must remember that it is very difficult to make a claim that anything is original on a 77 years old truck.

Cheers Woburt

a.k.a. Elmer Fudd

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I've never seen a red one. All these years I was under the impression both sides were green. Find the red one and I'll convert...

Seems to me even if one is red it could be a little misleading to an oncoming vehicle at night, what with mixing up front and back and all.

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I was under the impression that the jewels..... one red and one green where meant for opposite sides of the bumpers..... and being a British design were associated with the RED port side and green starboard side....after all most of the early British driving etiquette was based on maritime experience....hence driving on the left side like ships crossing from opposite direction.

Deep somewhere in my many boxes of CMP bits, odds & ends and what nots..... that I have a set of jewels and I believe one is green one is red. I never installed them as I replaced my old twisted bumper with a new section of U channel and the old bumper did not have the hole for the jewels.

Keep in mind that my relatively early Chevrolet cab 11 never went over seas and never had the black out masks on the headlights, no rear axle light and no front fender mounted position lights. My vehicle as far as I can tell was purely a base runabout in the HQ area. It also did not have later retro fits like the long hook on the cowling for driving with the doors ajar nor the retro fitted straps to limit the doors from banging on the cargo box. It does however have the air vents and the Ford woven mesh grill.

But having said all that, one must remember that it is very difficult to make a claim that anything is original on a 77 years old truck.

Cheers Woburt

a.k.a. Elmer Fudd

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Bruce.....

I know I have two...... but it has been a long time since I looked at them..... if one is "red" and not original I think I remember who sold it to me......

Will rummage through my storage containers in the barn tomorrow.

Cheers

[rob love]

I seem to recall the green ones are mentioned in the design branch records. There was no mention of red ones.

[Bob Carriere]

Checked my CMP parts box and YES they are both green.....

Also listed in the parts book....but... it seems that the very early cab 11 made in 1940 may not have had them and appeared in the 1941 series and the subsequent cab 12 model into 1942.



Cheers

[rob love]

And of course on the Cab13 until about the end of 42.

[r.morrison]

Well given that info, that would be a lot of reflectors. Question is.....where did they all end up? Bob....have you been holding out???

Cheers: Robert

[Bob Carriere]

......"that would be a lot of reflectors."

Plus ALL the spare in stores.....

Only got one set which I obtained from BCA.

Cheers

[rob love]

So I had a quick search for reflector info in the Design Branch records, and here is the total information. These were found in the Self propelled MT chassis under the Blackout lighting section:

"In March 1941, the first issue of specifiction OA62 covering blackout Equipment was released. This issue specified the following features: ..............

(i) Green Reflectors were set in the Front Bumper, 2 ins from the outer sides of the bumper, to indicate the approximate width of the vehicle.

Various modifications were subsequently incorporated into production which resulted in the following: .................

(h) Reflectors in the bumpers were deleted. "

[r.morrison]

So, as I was under the impression, they were reflectors for vehicle width and not just to show another vehicle coming down the road in the opposite direction. I would think this possibly had to do with "blackouts" on the road. Learned something new tonight.....Robert

[David Dunlop]

Has anyone with these reflectors ever tested them in the dark, mounted in the front bumper to see how well they actually work? If you think about it, they probably need some fairly strong direct light to do their job. A normal, oncoming vehicle headlight? Perfect! An oncoming blackout headlamp...?

They are cute little accessories but in the real driving world of the 1940's during the war:

- They are located in a restrictive position that is a dirt magnet.
- Just how much dust or dirt needs to accumulate on them before they stop reflecting?
- Just how far up the 'priority list' for a combat CMP driver would cleaning these reflectors be?

They strike me as the brainchild idea of some desk jockey somewhere in the system who had no real sense, or experience of the actual wartime operating environment. On a home base, paved road, blackout environment, these reflectors may have been maintainable, but realistically, just how many CMP's actually served in that type of environment?

Once the orders went out for addition of these reflectors, bumpers were probably changed and the new ones introduced into the system in the usual 'after SN XXX use YYY', but when the reflectors were deleted, the front bumper assemblies were probably in the system for a very long time. At the production end of the system, reflector bumpers may very well have been used into the first few years of Cab 13 production. In fact, it may have been more efficient on the assembly lines to simply keep stamping these bumpers out until the equipment making them needed overhaul/maintenance. From our position today, finding a reflector bumper on a Cab 13, or even late Cab 12 CMP should not be a green light (sorry about that) to try and find and install the reflectors. They very likely never existed on the vehicle in the first place.

Just a thought. To mount these reflectors you need the large hole on the front face of the bumper, along with two mounting screw holes- one each on upper and lower edges. If the two screw holes were a drilled item rather than punched, maybe that step was easy to delete in production as it might have been a secondary processing step at another work station from the stamping tool for the larger reflector openings on the face of the bumper. Maybe there are some front bumpers out there with the large reflector openings stamped in them, but no upper and lower mounting screw holes. That would confirm a sequential phaseout sequence on the production line.

David