BSA Folding Bicycle

rob love · #1 06-02-11, 23:48

I recently received the remnants of one of these bicycles from off a farmer's scrap pile. I am going to take a shot at restoring it, although looking at the prices anything "BSA airborne paratrooper" fetch on ebay has me wondering if I should even try.

I spent the morning stripping the bike down to the frame. Still have to remove the crank yet. It appears some water had collected in the rear frame and cracked the two tubes for about 1/2" I will have to weld them back and straighten them. Otherwise, the frame is in pretty nice condition. With a bit of heat, I managed to get the seat post out, the front handle bars out, the pedal pins freed up, and the rear brake assemble and lever off, both hinge wingnuts loose, all without damaging anything.

Parts I will have to find include: BSA marked seat (I may just go with a modern Brooks seat in the meantime), front brake and lever, wheels and tires. I will also buy a set of the repro grips and decals.

Anyway, for those who may have gone through this before, here are a couple questions for you:

I note that there seems to be black paint under some areas of the green. Were the complete bikes black, then over painted with the olive drab? Or just the frame and the pedal cranks?

Are the bearing cups on the front forks a standard item between bicycles, or unique to the BSA?

Lynn Eades · #2 07-02-11, 02:20

I'm NOT sure, but I think they are a standard bycycle bearing. The inner race, balls and cage will be still current. I do mobility scooters, and they use them. The problem is probably with the outer race which is probably chromed, and knurled. This will be harder to locate. Maybe a few pictures of what you are after will help.

rob love · #3 07-02-11, 04:42

Here are some photos of the bearing races. The ball bearings were all missing.
Photo 1: Upper
Photo 2 Lower
Photo 3: Front frame

The local town has a guy who rebuilds bikes for the local kids. He literally has hundreds in his front yard. It is a great place to drop off your spare bikes as the kids grow older. I dropped a half dozen off there last summer. Guess I am going to have to go there and try and do some scrounging.

rob love · #4 07-02-11, 04:44

Here are a couple photos of the complete project, as well as a shot of the bulged and cracked frame where the some water would have froze.

Ed Storey · #5 07-02-11, 04:51

Rob:

The ball bearings are available commercially. When I redid my BSA bike about 5 years ago I needed some ball bearings and the local dealer gave me what I required. I had been saving up parts for over 10 years before the restoration work was started. Mind you this was before the internet and you had to write everyone who had parts; and of course most of them were in the UK.

Do you have the frame number off of your bike?

ED

rob love · #6 07-02-11, 05:13

Ed
I will likely see if I can clean the races up enough so that they will function with new balls. This poor bike had been sitting outdoors in the weather for many years. I have bought loose ball bearings before for my carrier. Just need the size. I'll shake out the frame and see if one pops out.

While on the one hand, everything is much more accessible with the internet nowadays, the problem is everything is either on ebay or priced like it's on ebay. I used to think military vehicle collectors were nuts on what we would pay for items, but now that I have seen what bicycle collectors pay for vintage parts, I am glad I usually collect military vehicles. The prices are insane. Repro grips are almost $60, a rear chain sprocket on ebay sold for $106, a seat for $270, and the small tool pouch for $173. Little wonder guys are trying to sell the complete bikes for $4 grand....the sum of the parts will come close to that.

I'll have to grab the serial number tomorrow. I had a look at it today, but didn't think to write it down or take a photo.

derk derin · #7 07-02-11, 06:06

Rob,
I just ordered the 3 decal set from:
Classic Transfers
PO Box 17
Wotton-Under-Edge
Glos. GL12 8YX U.K.
I am very happy with them and ordered 2 sets in case I screw up the first one.They are selling a set for 4.75 pounds each and shipping was 3.00 pounds and they arrived fast.You can go on their website and order from them using your credit card.The reference number is 7197 and the description is BSA WWII Folding Bike Set.Their website is:
www.classictransfers.co.uk
As far as researching for a reproduction leather seat,the name Tony Colgrave came up many times on different sites as the man who has a really nice replica leather seat offered.I have researched his name for a website address but was not able to come up with one,only an address:
A Colgrave Wellhouse
Northian Rye,East Sussex
TN31 6HY England
His Phone number is 01797 253177
I have never phoned overseas before so am unsure of the procedure and if I will get a clear signal so I can understand the conversation!
Does anybody know if Tony has a website where he could be contacted for an order?
Derk.

rob love · #8 07-02-11, 06:19

Derk
How do they look? Is the broad arrow white or black?

Have you seen the folding bike goodies on this site? http://www.battledressandbayonet.com/page_24.html

The Enfield mounts look like a must have if you want to turn a bicycle into a gun ship.

Lynn Eades · #9 07-02-11, 06:43

Shout is some bearings. It wont break you.

Hanno Spoelstra · #10 07-02-11, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

I note that there seems to be black paint under some areas of the green. Were the complete bikes black, then over painted with the olive drab? Or just the frame and the pedal cranks?

Great find Rob, looks like you have more to start with than many others restoring these bikes!

Re. the black paint, I discussed this with an vintage bike expert as I found black paint on my Dutch Army bicycle too. He said back in those days they often - if not always - used black moffellak or baking enamel as a very durable primer coat. Over this primer the manufacturer could apply a top coat to the client's specifications.

HTH,
Hanno

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #11 07-02-11, 13:02

Hi Rob - maybe an easy way to contact.

Tony Colegrave

Bob

derk derin · #12 07-02-11, 18:42

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the email address.I was up to the wee hours of the morning trying to come across his email address.I just emailed him to see if they are still available and price.I know both my bicycles could use them.Maybe he could make a run of them if others here could use one.Anybody else here have a BSA bicycle they are working on?
Regards,Derk.

rob love · #13 07-02-11, 18:48

Derk
If it works out, I will be in for one. Let me know.

rob love · #14 07-02-11, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Do you have the frame number off of your bike?

Ed
I got the number today...it's R33587. I believe that puts it almost in the center of production.

derk derin · #15 08-02-11, 07:34

Hi all,
I heard back from Tony Colgrave today and he sent me the information on his Replica leather seats he makes and they look really nice.Once I catch up with the winter bills I will put in an order for one for my bike.If anybody else is interested in one for their bike,let me know and maybe we can make up an order with him and get them shipped all at once.If you are interested in the details,email me and I will forward what he sent me and you can decide.He did give a price for the leather seat alone is 155pounds.It is worth it if you see the quality of his work and I will be happy to put one on my bike,especially with what they are worth nowadays.
Regards,Derk.
derk_derin@yahoo.ca

rob love · #16 08-02-11, 08:01

I'm in for one Derk. Are you getting one for each of your bikes?
Here are some of the photos that Tony sent to Derk showing the quality of Tony's work.

derk derin · #17 08-02-11, 08:16

Rob,
I am only going to concentrate on my later production bike as it has the most original parts on it.My early bike has only the frame and front forks original so it is a long way from being completed.Did you get your crank off?Was it a reverse thread to get the locking nut off?
Derk.

rob love · #18 10-02-11, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by derk derin

Rob,
I am only going to concentrate on my later production bike as it has the most original parts on it.My early bike has only the frame and front forks original so it is a long way from being completed.Did you get your crank off?Was it a reverse thread to get the locking nut off?
Derk.

The reverse thread was only on the bearing cup underneath the sprocket. On the adjusting side, both the lock collar and the bearing cup were right hand thread.

I wish I had known more about bikes. I found out the hard way that once the left crank is off, you can drive the shaft off the right crank and through the hub. I was trying to pull the crank off the shaft.....a lot harder to do.

Supposed to warm up to 0 this weekend so I'll be able to run the compressor and sandblast the frame and accessories.

rob love · #19 13-02-11, 02:29

Got the frame into the sandblaster. It was a tight fit, but once in there the frame could be moved and even rolled over by hinging open and closed the smaller half. In the third photo, you can see some of the sloppy brazing from the factory. Unfortunately, it will end up looking like a large dried paint run once painted over, but thats the way BSA made her, so thats the way she'll stay.

rob love · #20 13-02-11, 02:32

During the blasting, another crack showed up on the frame from ice. This made a total of four of them. Since the tubes are tapered, it would appear they were made from rolled metal, with a seam, which was very subject to opening up. Below is a shot of the crack, welding it up, and the finished repair. Then it was back into the sandblaster to finish the stripping.

rob love · #21 13-02-11, 02:36

Finally, I get to see some results. The blasted frame is set on a stand and given an initial coat of black, followed by a tack coat of olive green.

rob love · #22 13-02-11, 02:46

I have also had to remove the pedals from the cranks, in order to free up the detent balls. Last thing you would want is for the pedal to work it's way inward and get caught up on the frame. I put penetrating oil on the detent ball, and tried to work it loose....no luck. I was about to drill a small hole behind the ball and force some grease in to puch the ball out, when I though I would give a try at simply drilling out the ball. It never should have worked, but it did. The drill bit cut right through the detent ball and cleaned out the hole. It certainly was not any type of ball bearing I am used to. A drill bit never should have been able to do that. Hopefully I'll get as lucky on crank number two.

rob love · #23 13-02-11, 17:42

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1942-BSA-Airborne...item53e608879b

Above listing is for a BSA folding bike on ebay. The seller tried to sell it in two parts (frame and crank in one auction, wheels and brakes in another) but the buyer forgot to ask his wife if he could buy it so it has ended up being offered again. It would have sold for a little over $1050.

It is now reaching $1000 with 5 hours to go. (Edited to add: sold for $1140). This bike actually has about the same amount of original parts (maybe even less) than what I started with. The wheels and tires, one crank, all the brakes are not original to a para bike, and the seat is altogether missing. Handlebars are bent.

When I got this pile of bike, I was embarrassed by what I had. There wasn't a lot there, and it was pretty weathered. I am starting to think that it may turn out OK.

There are a couple of other BSA bikes on ebay now, in the $3,000 to $4,000 range. Not selling mind you, but listed at those prices. Where does the madness end? I have bought Jeeps in running and roadworthy condition for less.

horsa · #24 13-02-11, 17:57

Hey Rob,

I'd think that your bike will be worth a lot more once completed than the other comps you posted. Yours is the much harder to find early pattern with the offset saddle mount.

The folding bikes have always seemed to be expensive compared to other military vehicles. I think one of the draws for people is their size. A reenactor or collector living in an apartment can store a bike a lot easier than they could a jeep or a carrier. Welbikes followed the same trend and were always about three times the price of a folding bike. When a nice bike was $500, the Welbikes were in the $1200-1500 price range. Now they seem to be in the $5000-8000 range for a runner.

Similar thoughts to the crazy prices on the carrier tools and accessories on the other discussion. The bar keeps getting raised.

rob love · #25 13-02-11, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsa

Hey Rob,

I'd think that your bike will be worth a lot more once completed than the other comps you posted. Yours is the much harder to find early pattern with the offset saddle mount.

You'll have to explain that one to me Gordon. I don't see anything unusual about mine, but I will bow to your superior knowledge. Note that in the photo back in post #4, the bike has been mostly disassembled and the pieces are not necessarily in their exact proper places.

I am not bothered about the end worth (although I am worried about the cost to do a reasonable restoration). Pretty sure it is going to just end up on the workshop wall as a display piece, or else down in the gunroom. Perhaps it will end up strapped on the back of the Bren carrier once that project is completed.

horsa · #26 13-02-11, 18:32

Actually my mistake after looking at your photo again. I didn't notice that the post the saddle is mounted onto is pulled out of the frame support. At first glance, it looked like it was one of the first pattern frames. They welded the short pipe the saddle sits onto the front of the upright frame support. The second pattern has the short piece of pipe necked down to fit inside of the upright frame support like you find on most modern bikes.

rob love · #27 13-02-11, 18:39

I thought that might be what you were thinking. My bike seems to be a run of the mill, middle of production bike.

rob love · #28 15-02-11, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Shout is some bearings. It wont break you.

Went to the local bicycle shop today and got the bearings. If someone else is going to do one of these, here are the bearings you need:

Pedal crank: qty22 of 1/4" ball bearings
Headstock: Qty 62 of 1/8 ball bearings
Pedals (poppet ball to retain pedal shafts in or out) qty 2 of 7/32

Also bought the top nut for the headstock which was missing. Turns out it is a standard size. It will have to do until an original is found.

I expect some progress tomorrow. It should start looking like a bike again. I still have to find the BSA wheels, some war grade tires (if possible) get the seat order in, and find a complete front brake assembly and lever.

If only carriers went together this quick.

rob love · #29 15-02-11, 21:20

Busy day today as the bike starts to take shape again. Just thought I would add a few things for the future BSA bike restorers.

Paint: As the photo below shows, the paint I used (gillespie 33070 ww2 olive drab) came pretty close to what original paint remained on the bike. Of course, we all know better than to think that 70 year old paint has retained all it's pigments, or that all bikes were painted from the same mix of paint, the same way, and the same temps. Either way, this will do.

Pedals: If you are removing your pedals, just heat up the small washer end. It is brazed on, vice the large end which is peened on. Removing the pedals lets you get in to try and free the poppets.

Poppets: I couldn't see me having drilled through ball bearings, and as it turns out I did not. They are actually cylindrical poppets in there. I am using 7/32 ball bearings instead, along with some suitable length of quality spring under the ball. I do not expect to be going into here again. It will be someone else's turn in 70 years.

You will also notice that things like the bearing retainers, pedal shaft etc are in black. I did not find traces of paint on these parts, so I sandblasted them to clean them up, and dunked them into rifle bluing. Afterward, they were simply oiled.

Here are a couple shots of some of the results

Ed Storey · #30 17-03-11, 13:55

Lots of good original kit kicking around back then.